God said in the Gita that the creation is both in Him and not in Him. How to correlate this?

[dattaswami]

God said in the Gita that the creation is both in Him and not in Him. How to correlate this?

[Sri JSR Prasad asked: Sashtanga Pranamas Swami. In the Gita, God said that the creation is in Him and also not in Him (Matsthāni sarva bhūtāni…, na ca matsthāni bhūtāni). How to correlate this?]

Swami Replied: The clarification is given in other verses like ‘bhūtabhṛt na ca bhūtasthaḥ’ (I am the possessor of the creation and not present in the creation.), ‘mayi sarvamidaṃ protam’ (all this creation is possessed by Me), na tvahaṃ teṣu te Mayi (I am not in the creation but the creation is on Me.) etc., reveal that God is the basic substratum (ādhāra). The shape of the pot is based ‘on’ the mud atoms whereas, the shape of the pot is not present ‘in’ the mud atoms. The creation is present ‘on’ God (aupashleshika saptamii vibhakti), but not ‘in’ God (abhivyaapaka saptamii vibhakti). The saptamii vibhakti (locative case) in Sanskrit means both ‘on’ (aupashleshika) and ‘in’ (abhivyaapaka). I am possessing the shirt means that the shirt is ‘on’ me. I am possessing blood means that blood is ‘in’ me. Both these statements belong to the same locative case. If we take the locative case only, there is no difference between ‘on’ and ‘in’. Of course, it is clearly said that the locative case has both the separate meanings, which are both ‘on’ (aupashleshika) and ‘in’ (abhivyaapaka). In this locative case, another meaning is also said, which is ‘vaishayika’ (subject) and the example here is that I am a scholar ‘in’ grammar. But, this third meaning also is adjusted in the ‘in’ (abhivyaapaka) only as per  English language.

When we take similes for the creator and the creation, people take mud and pot as a simile in which we have already told that pot is based ‘on’ mud particles (aupashleshika). If we take the simile of magician and magic, the creation or magic is based ‘on’ the magician since the magic is appearing outside the magician. Here also, ‘on’ (aupashleshika) is used in the verse Aham ātmā… sarvabhūtāśaya sthitaḥ. Here, God is said to be the basic substratum of the creation. The word ‘jalaashaya’ which means lake, tells us that the lake is the basic substratum of water (jala). The word Aatmaa is used for God because just as the soul is the basic substratum of the body maintained, God is the basic substratum of the creation. The word Aatmaa means that which is extending (atati). God extends as the basic substratum for this entire creation. The word Aatmaa need not be taken as soul only, but, in general, can be taken as any basic substratum that extends below the supported items.

God referred to in this context is the first mediated God called Iishwara or Naaraayana or Hiranyagarbha. Since medium has spatial dimensions, ‘in’ and ‘on’ are suitable for usage. But, if you take the unmediated, unimaginable God, He has no spatial dimensions and  words like ‘in’ and ‘on’ have no meaning. In His case, we can only say that He is not affected or contaminated by the creation (asaṅgohyayaṃ puruṣaḥ- Samkhya). The reason is that the absolute reality of the creation is not inherent to the creation, but, the absolute reality of the unimaginable God (Parabrahman) is gifted to the creation by the unimaginable God Himself. Depending upon the nature of God and medium, we have to use the words like ‘on’ and ‘in’. Even in worldly items, we have to follow this. For example, in the case of space, we can never use the word ‘on’ because space is not showing its boundaries. We can say that the air is ‘in’ space, but, space is not contaminated by air (Yathākāśagato nityam… Gita). Krishna says that He is sitting at the centre of the entire creation rotating the entire creation (īśvarassarva bhūtānām). The word ‘hṛddesśa’ means the centre of gravity which is the essential part for rotation. We say the essential meaning of the poet as ‘kavi hṛdaya’, which does not mean the physical heart of the poet. God told that He is extending Himself for the entire creation as the basic support (mayā tataimdam). God also told that He is ‘Aatmaa’, which means the basic support that is extending for the entire creation so that no part of the entire creation is leftover without the support (Ahamātmā…). The word ‘sarva bhūtāśaya sthitaḥ’ can be taken as 1. sarva bhūtāśaya stitaḥ which means that God is standing as the support, 2. The word ‘āśaya’ may be taken as the alternative of ‘hṛddeśa’ or centre of gravity to rotate the entire creation.

Logic says about four types of Abhaava (absence):- 1. Praagabhaava means that which did not exist before its production. 2. Pradhvamsaabhaava means that which will not exist after destruction. 3. Anyonyaabhaava that which does not exist in a different item and vice versa. 4. Atyantaabhaava means that which never existed at any time. This creation has praagabhaava because it did not exist before its first production. This creation has no second type of absence because in destruction, it only goes from gross state to subtle state. The creation has third type of absence because it exists based on God and God also exists in the creation as incarnation. The creation has no fourth type of absence because it exists forever after its production by God for the sake of His entertainment. The gross state is the film show and the subtle state is the film reel. The reel always exists after its generation because no fool destroys the reel after the first show and reconstructs it for the second show. The shape of the pot is always associated with the eternal existence of the mud and only a fool destroys the pot, which is useful to bring water.

[Luke_Wilbur]

With all do respect, I believe what you are trying to state is that God is the Creator of everything and is the most powerful being. He can reveal himself in different ways and sometimes in subtle ways. God is not limited by space or human understanding and is always present everywhere. He created everything, including the Earth and all the things on it. Things that are destroyed will not exist anymore. God is always the same and never changes. God's thoughts and ways are different than ours and are more powerful. It is important to listen to God and try to understand him. Just like I am trying understand what your post.

From what you wrote I believe that you are trying to help people understand the relationship between God and the creation, and to recognize that God is the ultimate source of all things. God is the basic foundation or support for the creation, but is not a part of it. In the Hebrew Bible, specifically the book of 1 Kings, chapter 19, verses 11-12 the prophet Elijah is on the mountain, waiting for the LORD (God) to reveal himself to him. The LORD appears not in the wind or the earthquake, but in a still, small voice. This passage is often used to illustrate the idea that God can reveal himself in subtle and unexpected ways, and that it is important to be attuned to his presence and listen for his voice.

The Bible contains passages that describe God as being beyond all spatial dimensions and beyond human understanding or perception. One example is in the book of Isaiah, chapter 55, verse 8-9, which says: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." This passage suggests that God's thoughts and ways are beyond human understanding, and that he is above and beyond the limitations of human experience and understanding. This can be interpreted as God being an unmediated or unmanifest form that is beyond all spatial dimensions and beyond human perception or understanding.

Another example is in the book of Psalms, chapter 139, verse 7-12, which says: "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,” even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you." This passage suggests that God is present everywhere and that there is no place where one can go to escape his presence. This can be interpreted as God being an unmediated or unmanifest form that is beyond all spatial dimensions and beyond human perception or understanding.

Bible contains passages that suggest that the creation did not exist before it was produced by God. One example is in the book of Genesis, chapter 1, verse 1, which says: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." This passage suggests that before God created the heavens and the earth, they did not exist.

Another example is in the book of Colossians, chapter 1, verse 16-17, which says: "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." This passage suggests that all things, including the visible and invisible things in heaven and on earth, were created by God and did not exist before he created them.

These passages can be interpreted as suggesting that the creation is nonexistent before it is produced, because it did not exist before it was created by God.

The Bible contains passages that suggest that certain things will cease to exist or no longer be present after they are destroyed. One example is in the book of Psalms, chapter 102, verse 26, which says: "They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded." This passage suggests that the things that "perish" or are destroyed will no longer be present or exist in the same way as they did before they were destroyed.

Another example is in the book of Isaiah, chapter 51, verse 6, which says: "Lift up your eyes to the heavens, look at the earth beneath; the heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment and its inhabitants die like flies. But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail." This passage suggests that the earth and its inhabitants will cease to exist or be present in the same way after they are destroyed, while the salvation and righteousness of God will last forever.

These passages can be interpreted as suggesting that certain things will cease to exist or no longer be present after they are destroyed, which aligns with the concept of Pradhvamsaabhaava, or the absence or non-existence of something after it is destroyed.

The Bible contains passages that suggest that certain things are distinct and separate from one another, and do not exist within or as part of each other. One example is in the book of Romans, chapter 6, verse 23, which says: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." This passage suggests that sin and death are distinct and separate from the gift of God, which is eternal life. They do not exist within or as part of each other, and the existence of one does not depend on the other.

Another example is in the book of James, chapter 1, verse 17, which says: "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows." This passage suggests that good and perfect gifts are distinct and separate from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change. They do not exist within or as part of each other, and the existence of one does not depend on the other.

These passages can be interpreted as suggesting that certain things are distinct and separate from one another, and do not exist within or as part of each other, which aligns with the concept of Anyonyaabhaava, or the absence of one thing in another, or the absence of one thing in a different item and vice versa.

The Bible contains passages that suggest that certain things have never existed at any time and never will exist. One example is in the book of Titus, chapter 1, verse 2, which says: "In the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time." This passage suggests that eternal life has always existed, even before the beginning of time, and has never not existed at any time.

Another example is in the book of Psalms, chapter 90, verse 2, which says: "Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." In other words, he has never not existed at any point in time, either in the past or in the present. He has always had an ongoing and continuous existence, from "everlasting to everlasting."

God has always existed and will always continue to exist, without any breaks or gaps in his existence. His existence is eternal and unchanging, and that he has always been present and will always be present.