who is this man Jesus?

[eninn]

the Quran describes how Mary, the mother of Jesus, was approached by an angel from God, bringing her tidings she had never imagined: that she will give birth to a son, a Messiah, who will be of the righteous and will be a prophet of God, calling the Children of Israel (the Israelites) to the straight path of God.

 

(And mention) when the angels said, O Mary, indeed God gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous. (Quran 3:45-46)

 

Naturally, for Mary, this news was both strange and seemingly impossible.

 

She said, My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me? (The angel) said, Such is God; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is. And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel. (Quran 3:47-48)

 

The very nature of Jesus is so special, that God compares the uniqueness of His creation to that of the first man and prophet, Adam.

 

Indeed, the example of Jesus to God is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, Be, and he was. (Quran 3:59)

Jesus and His Miracles

Jesus became one of the greatest prophets of God, and was sent to the Children of Israel in order to confirm the teachings of his predecessor, the Prophet Moses. His birth was a miracle, and, like all prophets of God, he was granted several miracles. He approached his people, telling them:

And (make him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (who will say), Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from the clay (that which is) like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of God. And I cure the blind (from birth) and the leper, and I give life to the dead by permission of God. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. And (I have come) confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey me. Indeed, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path. (Quran 3:49-51)

Jesuss Followers

 

The Quran continues the story of Jesus by relating several incidents of his life and his disciples.

 

But when Jesus felt (persistence in) disbelief from them, he said, Who are my supporters for (the cause of) God? The disciples said, We are supporters for God. We have believed in God and testify that we are Muslims (submitting to Him.) Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger (i.e., Jesus), so register us among the witnesses (to truth). (Quran 3:52-53)

 

In another incident, after which an entire surah (chapter) of the Quran is named, the disciples of Jesus asked him for another miracle.

 

(And remember) when the disciples said, O Jesus, Son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a table (spread with food) from the heaven? (Jesus) said, Fear God, if you should be believers. They said, We wish to eat from it and let our hearts be reassured and know that you have been truthful to us and be among its witnesses. Said Jesus, the son of Mary, O God, our Lord, send down to us a table (spread with food) from the heaven to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You. And provide for us, and You are the best of providers. (Quran 5:112-114)

 

God sent them the table they had asked for, but not without a warning.

 

God said, Indeed, I will sent it down to you, but whoever disbelieves afterwards from among you then indeed will I punish him with a punishment by which I have not punished anyone among the worlds. (Quran 5:115)

The End of the Story?

The story of Jesus never really ends in the Quran, as we are told that Jesus was not killed, but that rather, God raised His beloved prophet up to Him.

(Mention) when God said, O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify (i.e., free) you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you (in submission to God alone) superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers. But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and God does not like the wrongdoers. (Quran 3:55-57)

 

 

The Quran also points out that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. Speaking of the Children of Israel, God faults their accusations against Mary as well as their claim that they killed Jesus.

And (We cursed them) for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander. And (for) their saying, Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God. And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but (another) was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, God raised him to Himself. And ever is God Exalted in Might and Wise. (Quran 4:156-158)

 

The Quran confirms that Jesus was raised up by God, and the Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, reassured us that Jesus will be sent down to earth once again before the Day of Judgment. In a saying of Prophet Muhammad, narrated by Abu Hurairah, the Prophet said:

By the One in Whose hand is my self, definitely the son of Maryam will soon descend among you as a just judge, and he will break the cross, kill the pig, and abolish the jizyah (tribute), and wealth will be so abundant that no one will accept it, until a single prostration will be better than the world and everything in it. (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yEq172Yvs4

[Luke_Wilbur]

I believe that Paul states knowing God is right in front of us.

 

Romans 1

 

1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness,

 

1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

 

1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse.

 

1:21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts were darkened.

 

1:22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

 

1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles.

 

1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves.

 

1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

 

1:26 For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones,

 

1:27 and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed in their passions for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

 

1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done.

 

1:29 They are filled with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice. They are rife with envy, murder, strife, deceit, hostility. They are gossips,

 

1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents,

 

1:31 senseless, covenant-breakers, heartless, ruthless.

 

1:32 Although they fully know Gods righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them.

God invites everyone to enter His kingdom, but few are worthy.

 

Matthew 22

 

22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:

 

22:2 “The kingdom of heaven can be compared to a king who gave a wedding banquet for his son.

 

22:3 He sent his slaves to summon those who had been invited to the banquet, but they would not come.

 

22:4 Again he sent other slaves, saying, ‘Tell those who have been invited, “Look! The feast I have prepared for you is ready. My oxen and fattened cattle have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.”’

 

22:5 But they were indifferent and went away, one to his farm, another to his business.

 

22:6 The rest seized his slaves, insolently mistreated them, and killed them.

 

22:7 The king was furious! He sent his soldiers, and they put those murderers to death and set their city on fire.

 

22:8 Then he said to his slaves, ‘The wedding is ready, but the ones who had been invited were not worthy.

 

22:9 So go into the main streets and invite everyone you find to the wedding banquet.’

 

22:10 And those slaves went out into the streets and gathered all they found, both bad and good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

 

22:11 But when the king came in to see the wedding guests, he saw a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.

 

22:12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ But he had nothing to say.

 

22:13 Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Tie him up hand and foot and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!’

 

22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

How we can be insolent to the Holy.

 

Mark 15

 

15:25 It was nine o’clock in the morning when they crucified him.

 

15:26 The inscription of the charge against him read, “The king of the Jews.”

 

15:27 And they crucified two outlaws with him, one on his right and one on his left.

 

15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘He was counted with the lawless ones.’”

 

15:29 Those who passed by defamed him, shaking their heads and saying, “Aha! You who can destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days,

 

15:30 save yourself and come down from the cross!”

 

15:31 In the same way even the chief priests – together with the experts in the law – were mocking him among themselves:

 

“He saved others, but he cannot save himself!

 

15:32 Let the Christ, the king of Israel, come down from the cross now, that we may see and believe!” Those who were crucified with him also spoke abusively to him.

Matthew 10

 

10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

10:29 Aren’t two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will.

 

10:30 Even all the hairs on your head are numbered.

 

10:31 So do not be afraid; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

 

10:32 “Whoever, then, acknowledges me before people, I will acknowledge 59 before my Father in heaven.

 

10:33 But whoever denies me before people, I will deny him also before my Father in heaven.

[eninn]

\\\\\\\\\\\\

so some one tell me;

I agree with you, however, that Jesus Christ was send as a messenger by God, nothing else. Jesus said so himself as quoted in John 7:16: "I am not teaching you my own thoughts, but those of God who sent me."

Much of the blame for distoring the mission of Jesus Christ belongs to the apostle Paul

so

Jesus Christ peace be upon him

Not sacrificed for any one

e.x

You have a disease

Then comes your brother

Receive treatment instead of you

Is this acceptable to the logic of the mind?

Death to the people who worshiped the calf is repentance

At the time of the Prophet Moses, peace be upon him

Then

At the time of the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him

Law requires repentance from sin without having to death

Jesus Christ peace be upon him

Not sacrificed for any one

(the soul that sinneth, it shall die)

Each person is responsible for his actions

(the soul that sinneth, it shall die)

\\\\\\\\\\

Jesus is a figure who is loved and revered by billions of people the world over. Yet there is so much confusion surrounding the status of this colossal personality. Muslims and Christians both hold Jesus in high regard but view him in very different ways.

The questions raised in this article aim to get to the heart of the issues surrounding Jesus: Is Jesus God? Or was he sent by God? Who was the real historical Jesus?

Some ambiguous verses of the Bible can be applied erroneously to show that Jesus is in some way divine. But if we look at the clear, direct verses of the Bible, we see again and again that Jesus is being referred to as an extraordinary human being and nothing more. What emerges, when we consider the historical and logical facts about Jesus’ life, is conclusive proof not only that Jesus cannot be God, but that he never claimed to be either.

What follows are five lines of reasoning which clarify this subject for us through the Bible itself and thereby allow us to discover the real Jesus.

1. Jesus Never Calls Himself God

The Bible (in spite of being changed and adulterated over time) contains many verses in which Jesus speaks of God as a separate person to himself. Here are just a few of them:

When a man addressed Jesus as “Good Teacher”, he replied “Why do you call me good? No one is good except the one God.’’ [Mark 10:18]

In another instance he says: “I can’t do anything by myself. Whatever I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just. I don’t seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me.” [John 5:30]

Jesus speaks of God as a separate being to himself: I’m going up to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. [John 20:17]

In this verse he affirms that he was sent by God: This is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent. [John 17:3]

If Jesus was God he would have told people to worship him, but he did the opposite and disapproved anyone worshipping him: And in vain they worship Me [Matthew 15:9]

If Jesus claimed to be God than there should be hundreds of verses in the Bible which would have mentioned it. But there is not a single verse in the entire Bible in which Jesus says I am God, worship me.

2. Jesus as Son and Lord?

Jesus is sometimes referred to as ‘Lord’ in the Bible and at other times as ‘Son of God’. God is called the ‘Father’, so putting these names together it could be claimed that Jesus is the son of God. But if we look at each of these titles in context we will find that they are symbolic and not to be taken literally.

‘Son of God’ is a term used in ancient Hebrew for a righteous person. God calls Israel his ‘son’: This is what the LORD says: Israel is my oldest son.[Exodus 4:22]. Also, David is called the ‘Son of God’: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’ [Psalm 2:7]. In fact anyone who is righteous is referred to as God’s ‘son’: All who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons and daughters. [Romans 8:14].

In the same way, when the word ‘Father’ is used to refer to God it shouldn’t be taken literally. Instead it’s a way of saying God is the creator, sustainer, cherisher etc. There are many verses for us to understand this symbolic meaning of the word ‘Father’, for example: one God and Father of all. [Ephesians 4:6].

Jesus is sometimes called ‘Lord’ by the disciples. ‘Lord’ is a term used for God and also for people who are held in high esteem. There are many examples of the word ‘Lord’ being used for people in the Bible: So they (Joseph’s brothers) went up to Joseph’s steward and spoke to him at the entrance to the house. “We beg your pardon, our lord,” they said. [Genesis 43:19-20]. Also, in other parts of the Bible, Jesus is even called a ‘servant’ of God by the disciples: the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. [Acts 3:13]. This clearly shows that when ‘Lord’ is used to refer to Jesus, it is a title of respect not of divinity.

3. The Nature of Jesus

The nature of Jesus was totally different to that of God. There are many parts of the Bible that highlight this difference in nature:

God is All-Knowing but Jesus by his own admission was not All-Knowing. This can be seen in the following passage when Jesus says “But nobody knows when that day or hour will come, not the heavenly angels and not the Son. Only the Father knows.” [Matthew 24:36]

God is independent and he doesn’t need sleep, food or water. Jesus however ate, drank, slept and depended on God: As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father. [John 6:57]. Another sign of Jesus’ dependence on God is that he prayed to God: Going a little farther, he (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed [Matthew 26:39]. This shows that Jesus himself sought help from God. God, being the one who answers prayers does not need to pray to anyone. Also, Jesus said: I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than me. [John 14:28].

The Bible is clear that God is unseen and is not a man: for no one may see me and live. [Exodus 33:20], God is not a man [Numbers 23:19]. Jesus on the other hand was a man who was seen by thousands of people, so he could not be God. Furthermore, the Bible makes it clear that God is too great to be inside his creation: But how could God possibly live on earth with people? If heaven, even the highest heaven, can’t contain you [2 Chronicles 6:18]. According to this verse Jesus cannot be God living on the earth.

Also the Bible calls Jesus a Prophet [Matthew 21:10-11], so how could Jesus be God and be God’s Prophet at the same time? That wouldn’t make sense.

Additionally the Bible informs us that God does not change: I the Lord do not change. [Malachi 3:6:]. Jesus however went through many changes in his life such as age, height, weight etc.

These are just some of the proofs within the Bible, which make it clear that the nature of Jesus and God is completely different. Some people may claim that Jesus had both a human and a divine nature. This is a claim that Jesus never made, and is in clear contradiction to the Bible which maintains that God has one nature.

[eninn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HBWZ45UJLI

[Luke_Wilbur]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. "The Father and I are one."

 

Maybe you can convey the above message. You can see the verses in context below. Ignorance hardens hearts.

 

Ahmed Deedat generalizes that all Christians as using the King James Bible. Catholics and Orthodox do not use the King James Bible. This is what I call confirmation bias. That is like stating Sunni, Shia, and Sufi beliefs are the same. Any person just glancing the news in Syria and Iraq show hostile Islamic differences bring bloodshed. Christian differences between Catholics and Protestants have also brought bloodshed. From what I have watched of Ahmed Deedat's discussions is that he does disservice to those of any faith by disrespecting the uniqueness of perspective of believing in God and Jesus.

 

Nothing is impossible with Yahweh. The Word of God creates from nothing.

 

Genesis 1

 

1:3 God said, Let there be light. And there was light!

God has dwelled visibly with His creation temporarily before until the covenant was broken.

 

Exodus 25

 

25:8 Let them make for me a sanctuary, so that I may live among them.

 

The Father is in essence God. The Word is in essence an expression of God. Distinct, but the same.

 

John 1

 

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God.

 

1:2 The Word was with God in the beginning.

 

1:3 All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.

 

1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind.

 

1:5 And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it.

 

1:6 A man came, sent from God, whose name was John.

 

1:7 He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that everyone might believe through him.

 

1:8 He himself was not the light, but he came to testify about the light.

 

1:9 The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

 

1:10 He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him.

 

1:11 He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him.

 

1:12 But to all who have received him those who believe in his name he has given the right to become Gods children

 

1:13 children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husbands decision, but by God.

 

1:14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.

 

1:15 John testified about him and shouted out, This one was the one about whom I said, He who comes after me is greater than I am, because he existed before me.

 

1:16 For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another.

 

1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ.

 

1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

Jesus and God are the unity of one essence of belief of protecting and rewarding the righteous.

 

John 10

 

10:22 Then came the feast of the Dedication in Jerusalem.

 

10:23 It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple area in Solomons Portico.

 

10:24 The Jewish leaders surrounded him and asked, How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.

 

10:25 Jesus replied, I told you and you do not believe. The deeds I do in my Fathers name testify about me.

 

10:26 But you refuse to believe because you are not my sheep.

 

10:27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

 

10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand.

 

10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Fathers hand.

 

10:30 The Father and I are one.

While the Levitical priesthood function is well known. I think much is not understood about the power and privilege Adonai gave to Judges. For the Jew the Levitical priesthood is dead. There are only Rabbis (Pharisees) to interpret the Commands. The effects of no priests are shown with the removal of morality in modern day law. Soon all perversions will become legal as long as they do not harm to another. As we seen with Fascism, the political party attempts to replace the power of the priest of Yahweh. But man does not understand the Word is now the eternal priest in the Order of Melchizedek. Christ conquered death, so the chosen can receive the gift of eternal life. The chosen followers of the new covenant will forever preach Yahweh's eternal Word made flesh and glorified to judge the living and the dead. The Holy Spirit is here on earth to give us the wisdom of God's absolute power and mercy.

 

Psalms 82

 

82:1 God stands in the assembly of El;

 

in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.

 

82:2 He says, How long will you make unjust legal decisions

 

and show favoritism to the wicked? (Selah)

 

82:3 Defend the cause of the poor and the fatherless!

 

Vindicate the oppressed and suffering!

 

82:4 Rescue the poor and needy!

 

Deliver them from the power of the wicked!

 

82:5 They neither know nor understand.

 

They stumble around in the dark,

 

while all the foundations of the earth crumble.

 

82:6 I thought, You are gods;

 

all of you are sons of the Most High.

 

82:7 Yet you will die like mortals;

 

you will fall like all the other rulers.

 

82:8 Rise up, O God, and execute judgment on the earth!

 

For you own all the nations.

John 5

 

5:16 Now because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began persecuting him.

 

5:17 So he told them, My Father is working until now, and I too am working.

 

5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

 

5:19 So Jesus answered them, I tell you the solemn truth, the Son can do nothing on his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise.

 

5:20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he does, and will show him greater deeds than these, so that you will be amazed.

 

5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomever he wishes.

 

5:22 Furthermore, the Father does not judge anyone, but has assigned all judgment to the Son,

 

5:23 so that all people will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

 

5:24 I tell you the solemn truth, the one who hears my message and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, but has crossed over from death to life.

 

5:25 I tell you the solemn truth, a time is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

 

5:26 For just as the Father has life in himself, thus he has granted the Son to have life in himself,

 

5:27 and he has granted the Son authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.

 

5:28 Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice

 

5:29 and will come out the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation.

 

5:30 I can do nothing on my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of the one who sent me.

 

5:31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

 

5:32 There is another who testifies about me, and I know the testimony he testifies about me is true.

 

5:33 You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth.

 

5:34 (I do not accept human testimony, but I say this so that you may be saved.)

 

5:35 He was a lamp that was burning and shining, and you wanted to rejoice greatly for a short time in his light.

 

5:36 But I have a testimony greater than that from John. For the deeds that the Father has assigned me to complete the deeds I am now doing testify about me that the Father has sent me.

 

5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified about me. You people have never heard his voice nor seen his form at any time,

 

5:38 nor do you have his word residing in you, because you do not believe the one whom he sent.

 

5:39 You study the scriptures thoroughly because you think in them you possess eternal life, and it is these same scriptures that testify about me,

 

5:40 but you are not willing to come to me so that you may have life.

 

5:41 I do not accept praise from people,

 

5:42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God within you.

 

5:43 I have come in my Fathers name, and you do not accept me. If someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

 

5:44 How can you believe, if you accept praise from one another and dont seek the praise that comes from the only God?

 

5:45 Do not suppose that I will accuse you before the Father. The one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope.

 

5:46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, because he wrote about me.

 

5:47 But if you do not believe what Moses wrote, how will you believe my words?

Deuteronomy 18

 

18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you from your fellow Israelites; you must listen to him.

 

18:16 This accords with what happened at Horeb in the day of the assembly. You asked the Lord your God: Please do not make us hear the voice of the Lord our God any more or see this great fire any more lest we die.

 

18:17 The Lord then said to me, What they have said is good.

 

18:18 I will raise up a prophet like you for them from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth and he will speak to them whatever I command.

 

18:19 I will personally hold responsible anyone who then pays no attention to the words that prophet speaks in my name.

[eninn]

 

1. Bible Says that God is not Man

The Bible says:

Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man…”

Hosea 11:9 “...For I am God, and not man...”

Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible:

John 8:40 “…a man who has told you the truth…”

Acts 2:22 “Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.”

Acts 17:31 “He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed”

1. Tim. 2:5 “…the man Christ Jesus.”

 

 

God is not a man, but Jesus, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was a man, therefore, Jesus was not God.

2. The Bible Says that God Is Not a Son of Man

Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man...nor a son of man…”

The Bible often calls Jesus “a son of man” or “the son of man.”

Matthew 12:40 “…so will the son of man be…”

Matthew 16:27 “For the son of man is going to come…”

Matthew 28 “…until they see the son of man coming in His kingdom.”

Mark 2:10 “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority…”

John 5:27 “…because He is the son of man.”

 

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the “son of man” is also used many times speaking of people (Job 25:6; Psalm 80:17; 144:3; Ezekiel 2:1; 2:3; 2:6; 2:8; 3:1; 3:3; 3:4; 3:10; 3:17; 3:25).

Since God would not contradict Himself by first saying He is not the son of a man, then becoming a human being who was called “the son of man”, he would not have done so. Remember God is not the author of confusion. Also, human beings, including Jesus, are called “son of man” specifically to distinguish them from God, who is not a “son of man” according to the Bible.

3. The Bible Says that Jesus Denied He is God

Luke 18:19 Jesus spoke to a man who had called him “good,” asking him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”

Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, “Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Jesus did not teach people that he was God. If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.

4. The Bible Says that God is Greater than Jesus

John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.”

John 10:29 “My father is greater than all.”

Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.

 

5. Jesus Never Instructed His Disciples to Worship Himself or the Holy Ghost, but God and God Only

Luke 11:2 “When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.”

John 16:23 “In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.”

John 4:23 “The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”

 

If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself. Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.

6. The Bible Says that Jesus Recognized, Prayed, & Worshipped the Only True God

Jesus prayed to God with the words:

John 17:3 “…that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”

Jesus prayed to God all night:

Luke 6:12 “he continued all night in prayer to God.”

…because:

Matthew 20:28: Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve.

How did Jesus pray to God?

Matthew 26:39 ‘…he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father…”

Even Paul said:

 

 

Hebrews 5:7 “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.”

Who was Jesus praying to when he fell on his face with loud cries and petitions? Was it himself? Was Jesus crying in tears to himself pleading to be saved from death? No man, sane or insane, prays to himself! Surely the answer must be a resounding ‘No.’ Jesus was praying to “the only true God.” Jesus was the servant of the One Who sent him. Can there be a clearer proof that Jesus was not God?

The Quran confirms that Jesus called for the worship of the Only True God:

“Truly, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (alone). This is the straight path.” (Quran 3:51

 

[Luke_Wilbur]

It is impossible to argue Scripture with a God fearing Christian if you do not understand Jesus from our perspective. The Quran gives 99 titles for God (Allah) that are appropriate for the context it is written. The same can be said the titles for God in the Bible (YHWH), Angels (Hosts), Prophets (Saints). Jesus (Son of God) has many titles as well. Before getting righteous you may want to actually learn the Bible from a person that believes in it. Not a person that literally tries to provoke people to believing Jewish and Christian scripture is "Poison." Ahmed Deedat expects the unfathomable wisdom and knowledge of Yahweh (Allah) to be clear to everyone.

 

John 9

 

9:39 Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that those who do not see may gain their sight, and the ones who see may become blind.”

 

9:40 Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this and asked him,“We are not blind too, are we?”

 

9:41 Jesus replied, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin, but now because you claim that you can see, your guilt remains.

Jesus did not come to be served, but to serve and be sacrificed according to the will of his Father. Before he ascended to Heaven he gave the promise of the Holy Spirit to be with us. Jesus commands that we baptize new members of the faith in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three are distinct with the Almighty Father preceding Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and the Holy Spirit.

 

Like yourself, the Jewish leaders took Jesus statements as blasphemy. But, this was in God's plan to reward those who accepted the new covenant of his Dear Son (the new pure Adam) who was without sin and body did not decay. Satan tempted Jesus like Adam and all the prophets in the past, but failed to move him.

 

John 5

 

5:16 Now because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began persecuting him.

 

5:17 So he told them, “My Father is working until now, and I too am working.”

 

5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

Logic dictates that God (Allah) is all powerful and can do anything if He wills it.

 

Catholics DO NOT believe that God had sexual relations with Mary. Catholics DO NOT believe that Jesus is a mere offspring from God.

 

Jesus was born in flesh and then raised in power of God through his Holy Spirit of Truth.

 

Acts 1

 

1:1 From Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God.

 

1:2 This gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures,

 

1:3 concerning his Son who was a descendant of David with reference to the flesh,

 

1:4 who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

1:5 Through him we have received grace and our apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles on behalf of his name.

Mark 9

 

9:2 Six days later Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John and led them alone up a high mountain privately. And he was transfigured before them,

 

9:3 and his clothes became radiantly white, more so than any launderer in the world could bleach them.

 

9:4 Then Elijah appeared before them along with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.

 

9:5 So Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us make three shelters – one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

 

9:6 (For they were afraid, and he did not know what to say.)

 

9:7 Then a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came from the cloud, “This is my one dear Son. Listen to him!”

 

9:8 Suddenly when they looked around, they saw no one with them any more except Jesus.

Matthew 20

 

20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to him with her sons, and kneeling down she asked him for a favor.

 

20:21 He said to her, “What do you want?” She replied, “Permit these two sons of mine to sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.”

 

20:22 Jesus answered, “You don’t know what you are asking! Are you able to drink the cup I am about to drink?” They said to him, “We are able.”

 

20:23 He told them, “You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right and at my left is not mine to give. Rather, it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

 

20:24 Now when the other ten heard this, they were angry with the two brothers.

 

20:25 But Jesus called them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions use their authority over them.

 

20:26 It must not be this way among you! Instead whoever wants to be great among you must be your servant,

 

20:27 and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave –

 

20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Mark 14

 

14:32 Then they went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.”

 

14:33 He took Peter, James, and John with him, and became very troubled and distressed.

 

14:34 He said to them, “My soul is deeply grieved, even to the point of death. Remain here and stay alert.”

 

14:35 Going a little farther, he threw himself to the ground and prayed that if it were possible the hour would pass from him.

 

14:36 He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

John 14

 

14:12 I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

 

14:15 “If you love me, you will obey my commandments.

 

14:16 Then I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever –

 

14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, because it does not see him or know him. But you know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.

Matthew 28

 

28:18 Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

 

28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

 

28:20 teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

John 20

 

20:30 Now Jesus performed many other miraculous signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not recorded in this book.

 

20:31 But these are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 2

 

2:29 “Brothers, I can speak confidently to you about our forefather David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

 

2:30 So then, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne,

 

2:31 David by foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did his body experience decay.

 

2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and we are all witnesses of it.

 

2:33 So then, exalted to the right hand of God, and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you both see and hear.

 

2:34 For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says,

 

‘The Lord said to my lord,

 

“Sit at my right hand

 

2:35 until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’

 

2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.”

Jesus purpose is crystal clear in the Bible. But, I do not understand his purpose in the Quran, because I have only begun to study it.

 

My questions for those of Islamic faith are:

 

what was the purpose of Allah creating Jesus in the womb of Mary?

 

What was God's purpose in creating the only sinless being that ever existed?

 

What was God's purpose in having Jesus Ascend to Heaven?

 

What is the purpose of Allah bringing back Jesus at the end of days?

 

Does Islam see the relation between Allah and Humans as Creator and His creation or Master and His slaves?

[Luke_Wilbur]

Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

2:115

And to Allah belongs the east and the west. So wherever you [might] turn, there is the Face of Allah . Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

Totally agree with this verse.

2:116

They say, " Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him,

I do not know who "they are. But, I believe everything belongs to God. Adonai gave Jesus authority over heaven and earth. You might think it like the Queen of Britain and her Prime Minister. Britain belongs to the Queen, but David Cameron has the authority to govern it. The only difference is that the people elect the Prime Minister. God willed his Son the power and authority to be the eternal priest that manages His divine creation. God (Allah) later made known his plan for his perfect creation. Jesus has proven to be an obedient to those that witnessed his life here on earth. Jesus is a role model that God (Allah) wants us to follow.

2:117

Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.

Totally agree and believe the God (Allah) said "Be." And the word became flesh known as Jesus.



Surat Maryam

19:16 And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.

19:17 And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.

19:18 He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."

19:19 She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah ."

19:20 He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy.

19:21 She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?"

19:22 He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.'

19:23 So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.

Praise God (Allah). It is easy for Him to plan and create. Praise God (Allah). He reveals his plans according to His time alone. Praise God (Allah) for creating Jesus a sinless Man as a sign of His divine mercy.

Sahih Muslim (Vol 4, pg 1261)

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (saw) as saying: The satan touches every son of Adam on the day when his mother gives birth to him with the exception of Mary and her son.

[eninn]

The Quran seeks to bring people back to the true faith that was taught by Jesus, and by his true disciples who continued in his teaching. That teaching emphasized a continued commitment to the first commandment that God is alone. In the Quran, God directs Muslims to call readers of the Bible back to that true faith. God have said in the Quran:

 

Say: “O people of the Book (Christians and Jews)! Come to a word that is just between us and you: that we shall worship none but God, and that we shall associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords beside God.” (Quran, 3:64)

 

The Gospel has been distorted

Matthew - Mark - Luke - John
Recognized by the scientists themselves Christians


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHsLecQe1so

The Bible says that the disciples did not believe Jesus was God.
The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was raised to heaven. Throughout this period, they never referred to Jesus as God. For instance Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed a crowd saying:
Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”
For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God (confirmed in Matthew 12:18):
Acts 3:13 “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.”
Acts 3:26 “God raised up his servant...”

 

When faced by opposition from the authorities, Peter said:
Acts 5:29-30 “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...”
The disciples prayed to God just as they were commanded by Jesus in Luke 11:2, and considered Jesus to be God’s servant,
Acts 4:24 “...they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.’”
Acts 4:27 “...your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.”
Acts 4:30 “…of Your holy servant Jesus.”
This is exactly what the Quran states of Jesus:
Quran 19: 30 “…I am indeed a servant of God.”

8. The Bible says that Jesus was God’s servant, chosen one, and beloved.
Matt. 12:18 “Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased.”
Since Jesus is God’s servant, Jesus can not be God.
9. The Bible says that Jesus could not Do Anything by Himself.
John 5:19 “The son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing.”
John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing.”

Jesus did not consider himself equal with God, rather he denied doing anything by himself.
10. The Bible says that God performed miracles through Jesus & Jesus was limited in what he could do.
Matt. 9:8 “But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.”
Acts 2:22 “a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst.”
Acts 10:38 “…he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”
If Christ was God, the Bible would simply say that Jesus did the miracles himself without making reference to God. The fact that it was God supplying the power for the miracles shows that God is greater than Jesus.

 

Also, Jesus was limited in performing miracles. One time when Jesus tried to heal a blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time (Mark 8:22-26). Once a woman was healed of her incurable bleeding. The woman came up behind him and touched his cloak, and she was immediately healed. But Jesus had no idea who touched him:
Mark 5:30 “At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, ‘Who touched my clothes?’”
Mark 6:5 “He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.”
Quite obviously, someone with such limitations can not be God. The power of miracles was not within Jesus.
11. The Bible says that at times of weakness angels strengthened Jesus; God ,however, does not need to be strengthened.
Luke 22:43 “An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him [in the garden of Gethsemane].”
Mk. 1:13 “Then the devil left him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.”
Mark 1:13 “And he was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild beasts, and the angels were ministering to him.”
Men need to be strengthened; God does not because God is All-Powerful. If Jesus had to be strengthened, he must not be God.
12. The Bible says that Jesus wanted God’s will to be done, not his own.
Luke 22:42: “not my will but Yours be done.”
John 5:30 “I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.”
John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.”
Are some members of the coequal Trinity subservient, and less than equal, to other members? Even though they have different wills (“I do not seek my own will”), do they obey without question the others’ commands (“the will of Him who sent me”)? Jesus admits to subordinating his own distinct will, yet according to the Trinitarian doctrine they should all have the same will. Should one of the triune partners have to forgo his own will in favor of the will of another member of the Trinity? Should not they all have the exact same will?
13. The Bible says Jesus regarded God’s testimony as separate from his own.
Jesus regarded himself and God as two, not “one.”
John 8:17 and 18: “I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father.”
John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.”
If Jesus was God, He would have not have regarded God’s testimony as separate from his own.

[Luke_Wilbur]

Ahmed Deedat is referring to the Johannine Comma

The First Epistle of John, often referred to as First John and written 1 John, is a book of the New Testament traditionally held to have been composed by John the Evangelist, at Ephesus. The epistle carried by itinerant missionaries to different churches throughout the region and read aloud to the congregations. The debate is on whether an accidental placement of a comma was made by a scribe.

οτι οι τρειϲ ειϲιν οι μαρτυρουτεϲ

For they that testify are three

Using Ahmed Deedat's logic you might want to consider reviewing the Codex Sinaiticus, the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament. The hand-written text is in Greek. The New Testament appears in the original vernacular language (koine) and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians.

1 John 5

5:1 Every one that believes that Jesus is the Christ, has been begotten of God; and every one that loves him that begot, loves him also that has been begotten of him.

2 In this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments; and his commandments are not burdensome,

4 because all that has been begotten of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that overcomes the world, our faith.

5 Who is he that overcomes the world but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came through water and blood, Jesus Christ: not in the water only, but in the water and in the blood; and it is the Spirit that testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

7 For they that testify are three,

8 the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are one.

http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=55&chapter=5&lid=en&side=r&verse=7&zoomSlider=0

It may be wise to look at your own Muslim theologians about errors in the Quran. Do you consider these variants to invalidate the Quran? If not, I am quite sure we both understand that mistakes can happen when a scribe is handwriting scripture. The point you miss is that the meaning of the message still is very easily understood.

“The Islamic scholarly tradition does not purport to have preserved the spelling of every word in the codices sent out by Uthman. Rather, Muslim tradition preserves the original Uthmanic codices at least at the skeletal-morphemic level, that is, with respect to features of the skeletal (unpointed) text that would necessarily change a word or part of word (morpheme) into something else if they were different. Some skeletal variations, such as different spellings of a word are not skeletal-morphemic because they do not necessarily change a word. Moreover, differences in the way consonants are pointed may change a word, but they are not skeletal-morphemic either since they do not change the skeleton. Normally, a reading is said to differ from the standard Uthmanic rasm only if it changes both the skeleton and the word, that is, if the change is skeletal and morphemic. All of this has been well-understood for many centuries and is simply taken for granted in the way most Muslim Quran specialists have written about the different readings (qira’at)” (Sadeghi, Behnam; Mohsen Goudarzi, “Ṣan’ā’ 1 and the Origins of the Qur’ān,” Der Islam [March 2012], 2-3]).

Once again you may consider following Ahmed Deedat's logic of going to closer to the source of Islamic scholarship.

In the first five centuries AH (seventh to eleventh centuries ad), Muslim commentators, theologians, and jurists usually dealt with the “previous Scriptures” assuming, on the basis of qur’anic references to these Scriptures, that the Law, Psalms, and New Testament were given by God but misinterpreted by Jews and Christians. Muslim-Christian dialogue during these centuries frequently involved reference to and debate about the proper interpretation of specific passages from the Bible. After the eleventh century, there is a noticeable shift in the character of the dialogue. After this point Muslims began arguing that the actual text of the Bible has been intentionally corrupted and is therefore not trustworthy and cannot provide any basis for dialogue. Martin Accad has argued, ‘it can be demonstrated that until the time of Ibn Hazm in the eleventh century, the accusation of tahrif in the sense of ‘intentional corruption of the Holy Scriptures’ was virtually non-existent. Even where some grave and serious suspicions were raised against the integrity of the text, the accusation can certainly not be considered to have been a central or foundational element of the Muslim discourse against Christianity. If it has become the starting point of that discourse today, it is certainly worth knowing that it has not always been the case, and that it is therefore possible to think otherwise. Even after Ibn Hazm, as late as the fourteenth century, Ibn Taymiyya recognized that the Islamic position towards tahrif as textual corruption was still diverse and ambiguous’. (Martin Accad, “The Gospels in the Muslim Discourse of the Ninth to the Fourteenth Centuries.” In A Common Word: Muslims and Christians on Loving God and Neighbor. Edited by Miroslav Volf, Ghazi bin Muhammad, and Melissa Yarrington [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2010], 59).

I find this passage of the Quran on a corruption of the word of God (Allah) confusing

Surat Al-Mā'idah (The Table Spread)

5:72 They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

5:73 They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.

5:74 So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

5:75 The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.

My first question is who are those that believe that God (Allah) is the third of the Trinity? In my belief God (The Father) is the first, Jesus (God's Word made Flesh) was second, the Holy Spirit (The Truth) was third.

My second question is whether the above passages from the Quran refer to Mary as the second or the Holy Spirit? If Mary, I do not know of any faith that refers to Mary as a deity. If the Holy Spirit, why is it not mentioned? In my faith blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.

 

I pray Muslims do not believe that Christians consider Mary as a member of the Trinity or divine. My faith is not far from Islam in this regard. Here purity in life and her union with God make here highly revered. She is the mother of the Messiah which both of are faiths believe. These acts alone give her a special place in God's kingdom.

 

Surat An-Naĥl (The Bee)

16:97 Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do.

Totally agree with rewarding the righteous. Who is we? God and Mohammed? From my perspective "We" could refer to the Trinity.

16:98 So when you recite the Qur'an, [first] seek refuge in Allah from Satan, the expelled [from His mercy].

16:99 Indeed, there is for him no authority over those who have believed and rely upon their Lord.

The concurs with the Holy Bible. I can agree with this completely.

16:100 His authority is only over those who take him as an ally and those who through him associate others with Allah.

I also believe that that Satan only has authority over those that are friendly towards and submit to him. I reject Satan through the higher power of Our Father (Allah), the Alpha and Omega, the Creator of us all. I use the term Allah to mean Yahweh in the greatest respect that I can humbly give with no vanity.

16:101 And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down - they say, "You, [O Muhammad], are but an inventor [of lies]." But most of them do not know.

I would agree with that statement. The replacement of a verse is quite different from a misspelling or a syntax error.

Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."

Surat Al-Mā'idah (The Table Spread)

5:110 [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."

Is the "Pure Spirit" referenced in the above passage the Holy Spirit (Truth)? Or Gabriel?
In my belief the answer would be Jesus received the Holy Spirit. And the angel Gabriel was used frequently in the Bible as God's messenger. But Gabriel is not the Holy Spirit. Does Islam believe the same?

And if you would be so kind to answer my previous questions for those of Islamic faith are:

What was the purpose of Allah creating Jesus in the womb of Mary?

What was God's purpose in creating the only sinless being that ever existed?

What was God's purpose in having Jesus Ascend to Heaven?

What is the purpose of Allah bringing back Jesus at the end of days?

Does Islam see the relation between Allah and Humans as Creator and His creation or Master and His slaves?

[Luke_Wilbur]

I was pondering whether the Pure Spirit could mean Gabriel. But then I realized it was Gabriel that gave Mohammed the Qur'an.

Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

2:97 Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - it is [none but] he who has brought the Qur'an down upon your heart, [O Muhammad], by permission of Allah , confirming that which was before it and as guidance and good tidings for the believers."

But then I remembered Ahmed Deedat's logic and realized that Mohammed would not use Gabriel in third person in stating, "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth." If that were the case then the passage would have read, Gabriel has brought it down from your Lord in truth. Therefore, the Pure Spirit must be the Holy Spirit.

Praise God (Allah). The more I read the more I am convinced that we are not so different.



Luke 1

1:26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth,

1:27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, a descendant of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.

1:28 The angel came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one, the Lord is with you!”

1:29 But she was greatly troubled by his words and began to wonder about the meaning of this greeting.

1:30 So the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God!

1:31 Listen: You will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus.

1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.

1:33 He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and his kingdom will never end.”

1:34 Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I have not had sexual relations with a man?”

1:35 The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called the Son of God.

1 John 4

4:15 If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God resides in him and he in God.

4:16 And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has in us. God is love, and the one who resides in love resides in God, and God resides in him.

4:17 By this love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, because just as Jesus is, so also are we in this world.

4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love.

4:19 We love because he loved us first.

Here we see the distinct separation of the Holy Spirit, Angels, the Most Merciful Allah (God) and the chosen One. We also see the Bible and the Quran prophecy of the Lord's Day.

 

Surat An-Naba' (The Tidings)

78:38 The Day that the Spirit and the angels will stand in rows, they will not speak except for one whom the Most Merciful permits, and he will say what is correct.

78:39 That is the True Day; so he who wills may take to his Lord a [way of] return.

78:40 Indeed, We have warned you of a near punishment on the Day when a man will observe what his hands have put forth and the disbeliever will say, "Oh, I wish that I were dust!"

Revelation 1

1:9 I, John, your brother and the one who shares with you in the persecution, kingdom, and endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony about Jesus.

1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day when I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

1:11 saying: “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches – to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”

1:12 I turned to see whose voice was speaking to me, and when I did so, I saw seven golden lampstands,

1:13 and in the midst of the lampstands was one like a son of man. He was dressed in a robe extending down to his feet and he wore a wide golden belt around his chest.

1:14 His head and hair were as white as wool, even as white as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame.

1:15 His feet were like polished bronze refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters.

1:16 He held seven stars in his right hand, and a sharp double-edged sword extended out of his mouth. His face shone like the sun shining at full strength.

1:17 When I saw him I fell down at his feet as though I were dead, but he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid! I am the first and the last,

1:18 and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive – forever and ever – and I hold the keys of death and of Hades!

Revelation 14

14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this:

‘Blessed are the dead,

those who die in the Lord from this moment on!’”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “so they can rest from their hard work, because their deeds will follow them.”

14:14 Then I looked, and a white cloud appeared, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man!

He had a golden crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.

14:15 Then another angel came out of the temple, shouting in a loud voice to the one seated on the cloud, “Use your sickle and start to reap, because the time to reap has come, since the earth’s harvest is ripe!”

14:16 So the one seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

Revelation 22

22:8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things, and when I heard and saw them, I threw myself down to worship at the feet of the angel who was showing them to me.

22:9 But he said to me, “Do not do this! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets, and with those who obey the words of this book. Worship God!”

22:10 Then he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy contained in this book, because the time is near.

22:11 The evildoer must continue to do evil, and the one who is morally filthy must continue to be filthy. The one who is righteous must continue to act righteously, and the one who is holy must continue to be holy.”

22:12 (Look! I am coming soon,

and my reward is with me to pay each one according to what he has done!

22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega,

the first and the last,

the beginning and the end!)

22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes so they can have access to the tree of life and can enter into the city by the gates.

22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood!

22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star!”

22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say: “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wants it take the water of life free of charge.

22:18 I testify to the one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

22:19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

22:20 The one who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.

http://youtu.be/WKYdG6Ge30g

Ennin may grace be with you and may the Spirit and the Church of Jesus be with you. I am just one of many that humbly invite you to come.

[eninn]

Why is the Holy Qur'an a Miracle and How ?

 

23. "And if you are in doubt of what We have sent down to Our (faithful) Servant (Muhammad), then bring forth one Sura the like thereof, and call your witnesses other than Allah, if you are truthful."

24. "And if you do not do so, and you will never do it, then fear the Fire whose fuel is People and Stones, prepared for the infidels."

Commentary :

After Allah (s.w.t.) explains the state of the hypocrite and disbelievers, and, through the creation of the heaven and the earth, sending down rain and growing plants on the ground, proves the existence of the Creator and Cherisher of the universe, He begins to validate the rightfulness of the Holy Qur'an and the truthfulness of His Messenger.

In order to show everyone the miraculousness of the Qur'an with clear evidence,according to one's portion of wit and understanding, that the Qur'an will be an argument for all, Allah confirms the prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.) and the authenticity of the Holy Qur'an by suggesting a challenge, a direct confrontation, not only to all the contemporaries of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) but also to men in all ages. " And if you are in doubt of what We have sent down to Our (faithful) Servant (Muhammad),..."

It addresses all the rejectors, with a concrete test, saying that if you imagine that the Qur'an, which has been sent down from Pure Holiness to the chosen servant of Allah in the form of statements and with the combination of ordinary alphabetical letters, is not from Him and it is the word of a human, then since outwardly you are in the same state from the point of being a human as the Prophet of Islam (p.b.u.h.) is, you should be able to produce a Sura like that of the Qur'an and call your own witnesses that are like you, the disbelievers of the Qur'an. You would compare your evidence with one of the Suras of the Qur'an, even if it be a small one such as Sura Kauthar and the like. If those two were similar in comparison in all their qualities, merits and privileges, you could rightfully reject the legitimacy of the Qur'an.

The disbelievers and pagan Arabs, who were the masters of literature and eloquence, refrained from accepting this challenge despite their pride and haughtiness in eloquence and avoided the competition. Therefore, inevitably, they turned the literary contest into a bloody battle. Thus, getting killed was easier for them than being disgraced and defeated in a literary contest. The Arab literature became helpless and meagre against the challenge of the Qur'an. Neither those who lived at the time of the Qur'an's revelation, nor the people born in the centuries after that could bring anything like this Holy Book, or could do anything against it, inspite of trying with their utmost strength. They were thus forced to retreat after exerting utmost efforts.

 

Why is the Holy Qur'an a Miracle and How ?

 

Being complete true revelation, the Qur'an is itself a miracle. As it is authentically known and also was mentioned in the above, at the time of the Qur'an's revelation the literary talent and eloquence of Arabs were at their peak, yet the miraculousness of the Qur'an is not confined to its inimitable literary excellence and eloquence. It stands on its own innumerous different merits some of which are beyond the reach of the complete conception of the literary geniuses of the Arab world. It has such a rhetorical capacity and linguistic excellence that is able to express different views and knowledge in a manner that is understood and appreciated by every rational human being of any standard and accomplishment of all the ages. Then everybody in any time,

 

once provided with the opportunity to become acquainted with the Holy Qur'an, which offers information by which all of his/her arguments will be completed, he/she can find himself or herself convinced by it. Such extensive knowledge and such power of expression is beyond the limitations of human ability. Even of the literate Arab people, as were previously referred to, especially at the time of the Qur'an's revelation when the literature of the Arabic language had reached its climax, none dared to bring a Sura similar to even its shortest one. This very single point is the smallest miraculous aspect of the Qur'an.

 

There is no doubt that if the Qur'an were the word of a human and the Prophet (p.b.u.h.), himself, who was known to the world as an illiterate one, had produced it, they would bring many Qur'ans like it and would prove that this is not the word of Allah revealed to him (p.b.u.h.). In that condition, the enemies of Islam would maintain their works which would be available everywhere and in any ages so that they could publish and distribute them, even now, to defame the one genuine Qur'an, but there is none.

 

Apart from its inimitable literary excellence, the Holy Qur'an with its other names such as 'Furqan' and 'Tibyan' referring to the abilities it has, presents to the human world definite prophecies fulfilled and yet to be fulfilled, and long after. It contains some facts about endowments in nature which the human knowledge of science as it progresses will have to understand, for its further advancement. The perfectness of such nature, naturally, will be the last word with regard to the ideas, religious and social laws, sciences, and many many other things that it contains and will remain for ever, until the Hereafter.

 

This universality of the truth expressed in the idea and beauty and the attractive force of the language is so divine that, as we said before, it is beyond the reach of the expressive power of any limited being. It is in this regard that the Holy Qur'an claims to be not only the word of Allah, inimitable, but the Final Word in respect to truth and justice the better or even the like of it is impossible to be produced by any one.

 

However, it is true to say simply and shortly that the Holy Qur'an is a miracle with respect to its contents which is the source of all knowledge and science, as it itself says : " Say : If the sea were ink (wherewith to write out) for the words of my Lord, the sea would surely be consumed before the words of my Lord are exhausted, though We were to bring the like of that (sea) to add thereto for its aid", (Sura Al-Kahf, No. 18, verse 109).

Thus, this verse, by itself, is a vital piece of evidence regarding the correctness of the above stated claim. (1)

Why do Prophets Need Miracles ?

 

We know that the Divine mission of prophethood is a great rank endowed upon some of the purified distingished members of the human race. Since the purpose of prophethood is the comprehensive guidance ruling over the body and spirit of individuals, and society, toward perfection and the laying down of a legal system and social order for mankind, the assumption of responsibility involved is necessarily heavy and taxing. So, it requires great capacity and energy. Allah, therefore, bestows the position of prophethood on those who have the ability and capacity to receive and follow through the light of revelation. This unique privilege and speciality of prophets is also shown in their miracles, which all of them had. And, to prevent some false,

 

deceitful impostors from claiming the position, it is necessary that, besides the revelation, the real ones should have sufficient evidence to bear testimony to the truth of their declaration and prove the claim that they are sent by Allah. That is, a prophet should utter such words and exhibit such deeds which could not be uttered or performed by any natural means within the power of a finite being, such as : restoring the dead to life again, communicating with animals and inanimate bodies, and the likes of them. These supernatural events are termed as miracles.

The prophet who has a miracle should introduce it to people and invite them to challenge with it. If they can produce none similar to that, thus, by the means of his miracle, he proves the truthfulness of his declaration.

 

The Holy Qur'an, The Everlasting Miracle of the Prophet of Islam(p.b.u.h.)!

Amongst the miracles issued by the Prophet of Islam (p.b.u.h.), the Qur'an is the best remaining evidence of his rightfulness. We know, of course, that, according to what the leading scholars of Islam have said, he (p.b.u.h.) had about 4440 miracles. But the Qur'an is a Book beyond the thoughts and mind of a mortal being. None has been able to bring one similar to it yet. It is a great heavenly miracle.

The reason that amongst all the miracles of the Messenger of Allah (p.b.u.h.) the Qur'an has been chosen as the greatest remaining evidence of legitimacy of the Prophet of Islam (p.b.u.h.) is that it is a miracle which is 'expressive', 'everlasting', 'world-wide', and 'spiritual'.

 

Each of the former prophets (a.s.) had to accompany his miracle to prove its inimitability when he used to invite his opponents for challenging and bringing the like of it. In fact, his miracle or miracles could not express themselves and it was the explanations of the prophet that would complete them. This statement is also true for all the miracles of the Prophet of Islam (p.b.u.h.) except the Holy Qur'an.

The Qur'an is a clear miracle which need not be introduced. It invites others to itself, demands the rejecters to challenge it while it defeats them, condemns them, and it always stands victorious. That is why it, after passing centuries, viz., since the departure of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) up to the present, has been continuing its invitation the same as it did during his lifetime (p.b.u.h). It is both religion and miracle; law, and the document of the law.

The Holy Qur'an, Global and Eternal

 

The reputation of the Holy Qur'an cleft the bonds of time and distance and influenced beyond them. The miracles of the prophets before the Prophet of Islam (p.b.u.h.), and even his own miracles save the Qur'an, happened in a special period of time, at a definite place and for a specific group of people. For example : the utterances of the holy little child of Virgin Mary, and raising the dead by Jesus (a.s.) were done at some definite times and places before the eyes of some particular people. And we know that regarding the things that depend on time and place,

 

the farther we move away from them correlatively the weaker they become. This is one of the properties of affairs related to time.

But, the Holy Qur'an does not depend on time and place. Its brilliance and authority that illuminated the darkness of Arabia fourteen centuries ago continues unwaveringly to shine with its original splendor. Besides that, the passing of time, the advancement of science and the development of information have made it possible for us to understand it and take its advantages even more than the nations of former ages did. It is evident that what time and place cannot influence will continue to be everywhere in the world for eternity. It is also clear that a world-wide everlasting religion should have a world-wide everlasting document of legitimacy in its possession.

Then we can discuss the Holy Qur'an :

 

from the point of modern science;

and the scientific explorations;

and the rotation of the Earth;

and reproduction in the plant kingdom;

and general reproduction in all the particles of the world;

and general gravity;

and the surrendering of the Sun and the Moon;

and the secrets of the creation of mountains;

and the advent of the world;

and the existence of life on other planets;

and the winds, the pollinator of plants;

and the question of the roundness of the Earth; (2)

And many other scientific facts and knowledge about the world can be found in the Holy Qur'an, too.

[eninn]

In the Quran Allaah informs us that He revealed a number of books, including the pages of Prophet Abraham (Ibraaheem may Allaah exalt his mention), the Psalms of Prophet David (Daawood may Allaah exalt his mention), the Torah of Prophet Moses (Moosaa may Allaah exalt his mention), the Injeel (Gospel) of Prophet Jesus (‘Eesaa may Allaah exalt his mention), and finally, the Quran of Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ). Of these revealed texts only the Quran remains intact in its original form. All of the others (as complete books) have been lost, their remains have survived only as fragments or tampered with in some way so as to make their authenticity doubtful. Nowhere in the Quran is the Bible even mentioned, to say nothing of its being

 

among the revealed texts of Allah, or as Christian claim “The Word of God.” Further, we know from respected scholars that although some fragments of the Psalms, the Torah, and the Injeel (the teachings of Prophet Jesus) may be found in the Bible, comprised of the Old and New Testaments, the Bible cannot rightfully be called “The Word of God.” Why is this so?

As one publisher (Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Wheaton, Illinois) stated: “The Bible may look like one book, but it is actually sixty-six books in one. Thirty-nine books make up what we call the Old Testament, and twenty-seven make up the New Testament. It is possible that more than forty writers were used by God to write all sixty-six books.” (Quoted from the “Holy Bible” – New Living Translation, Gift & Award Edition, l997, p. vii)

 

So if the Bible is neither narrated by God nor written by Him, and, as such, is not ‘the word of God,’ then what is it? By any objective criteria, the Bible is a book containing a compilation of stories, legends, folk tales, folk lore, myths, sagas, narratives, poetry, fragments of scriptures (fragments from the Psalms, the Torah, and the Injeel as already mentioned), letters (esp. in New Testament), visions, dreams, accounts of events from doubtful sources (not eye witnesses), editors’ or scribes’ notes, as well as human errors.

 

For those who believe in it, it is a book that has historical, cultural, moral and ethical values, and a source of spiritual teaching and guidance. It is a book held in high esteem, primarily by Christians who see it as a divine book and the source of their religious beliefs. But, in the final analysis it is only a book with many limitations and imperfections which disqualify it from being called “The Word of God.” Whoever makes such a claim then the burden of proof rests with him. On the contrary, the Glorious Quran is the Speech of Allaah and, through the Angel Gabriel, was revealed to Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ); later compiled into a book more than 14 centuries ago it remains preserved in its original form until today.

Some common misunderstandings about the Bible include the following:

 

The Bible is one book, the Old Testament. The Bible contains sixty-six books (or more depending upon the denomination one belongs to).

The Old Testament (OT) is the Torah followed by the Jews. The OT contains some fragments of the Torah which was lost and the Psalms, but the Talmud is the book followed by the Jews and is totally unrelated to the Bible.

The New Testament (NT) is the Gospel of Prophet Jesus, or the Injeel. It is neither. It is made up of twenty-seven books, none of which was narrated or written by Prophet Jesus although the NT may contain fragments of the Injeel (sayings and teachings of Prophet Jesus). The Injeel as revealed through Prophet Jesus has been lost. The fragments which may be cited in the NT may not be authentic or in their proper context. So it is erroneous to equate the NT with the Injeel mentioned in the Quran.

 

 

The Bible is a holy book, narrated, dictated by God and is infallible. While this is a claim, this misconception has already been addressed. Since the Bible is ‘only’ a book, there is no need to call it a forgery, a corrupted text, etc. The Quran is the only authentic “Word of God,” His Speech, and Allah has promised to protect it from distortion of any kind until the Day of Judgment and He has kept His promise. Not one letter or syllable has been changed over the past l4 centuries.

 

 

 

[eninn]

In Islam, Jesus is considered one of the five greatest prophets sent by God to mankind. Muslims’ knowledge about Jesus is based on the two main sources of Islamic knowledge: the Quran and Hadeeth (prophetic sayings). In the Quran, Jesus is referred to as Isa ibn Maryam, or Jesus, the son of Mary. The story of Mary and Jesus is best described in the Quran in chapters 3 and 19.

Mary: A Precocious Girlhood

The story starts with Mary, who was blessed as a child with God’s protection. Mary was born to the pious household of Aal Imran, or the family of Imran. Many people argued for the honor of taking care of the child, but the responsibility was given to Zechariah, an elderly and childless man, who immediately noticed that the young girl was special. One day, Zechariah noticed that the girl had in her possession certain provisions for which he could not account. He asked her how she came by the food and she answered,

“It is from God. Indeed, God provides for whom He wills without account.” (Quran 3:37)

This simple answer had a deep impact on the elderly man. Having long wished for a son, the devout Zechariah prayed to God for progeny. As the Quran relates in the verses below, his prayers were answered almost immediately, although his wife was barren and beyond childbearing age:

“At that, Zechariah called upon his Lord, saying, ‘My Lord, grant me from Yourself a good offspring. Indeed, You are the Hearer of supplication.’ So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber, ‘Indeed, God gives you good tidings of John, confirming a word from God and [who will be] honorable, abstaining [from women], and prophet from among the righteous.’” (Quran 3:38-39)

The uniqueness of Mary, noticed by Zechariah, was spelled out to her by the angels:

“And [mention] when the angels said, “O Mary, indeed God has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds. O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those bow [in prayer].’” (Quran 3:42-43)

Here the story of Mary’s upbringing and girlhood, as related in the Quran, ends.

The Miracle of Jesus

 

In chapter 19, entitled “Mary,” we hear more of this special woman’s story, best told by the Quran itself.

 

“And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east. And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel [i.e., Gabriel], and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man. She said, ‘Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of God.’ He said, ‘I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy [i.e., son].’ She said, ‘How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?’ He said, “Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.’” So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.” (Quran 19:16–22)

 

From the Quranic description of events, we can deduce that Mary spent most of her pregnancy alone. What happened to her during this period is not mentioned in the Quran. The Quran picks up the story at the moment that Mary goes into labor.

 

“And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of palm tree. She said, ‘Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten.’ But he called her from below her, ‘Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.’” (Quran 19:23-24)

 

God, knowing the reaction of society, further guided her how to deal with the situation:

 

“And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates. (Quran 19:25)

 

When she carried the baby Jesus to her people, they questioned her; and as a baby in her arms, Jesus gave them the answer. The Quran describes this scene in detail:

 

“So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, ‘Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.’ Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, ‘O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented. O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste.’ So she pointed to him. They said, ‘How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?’ [Jesus] said, ‘Indeed, I am the servant of God. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and he has not made me a wretched tyrant. And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive.’” (Quran 19:26-33)

 

And so the baby Jesus defended his mother from any accusations of adultery, and in a nutshell, explained who he was and why he was sent by God.

 

Here ends the story of Mary and miraculous birth of one of the greatest prophets of God, Jesus.

 

“That is Jesus, the son of Mary – the word of truth about which they are in dispute.” (Quran 19:34)

 

[Luke_Wilbur]

“So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, ‘Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.’ Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, ‘O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented. O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste.’ So she pointed to him. They said, ‘How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?’ [Jesus] said, ‘Indeed, I am the servant of God. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and he has not made me a wretched tyrant. And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive.’” (Quran 19:26-33)

 

I appreciate you sharing me the story of what you consider "One of the Greatest Prophets." I will pray on the words of baby Jesus revealed to Mohammed by Angel Gabriel. Does Gabriel share any other words of Messiah? The servant of God is exactly the same as in my belief. There must be more, but I am only starting to read the Quran. Please share all the wisdom you have of Christ.

 

Ennin,

You state:

 

Holy Qur'an, which offers information by which all of his/her arguments will be completed.

If the above statement is true, please review the questions I have given in the spirit of Islamic free inquiry, of which so far you failed to clarify, thus not completing your argument that Jesus is not the Son of God and undermining what I firmly believe that the Holy Bible teaches.

 

As you do not accept the Talmud or Didache as not part of the Bible, and the Quran is true, then you will not need the Hadeeth to support it. The Quran will stand on it own.

 

Who are those that believe that God (Allah) is the third of the Trinity?

 

Does Quran refer to those that believe in Trinity consider the three Jesus, Mary, and God or is it Jesus, Holy Spirit, and God?

 

Is Gabriel or the God's Holy Spirit the Pure Spirit that is mentioned in the Quran?

 

Is Mary a prophet?

 

What was the purpose of Allah creating Jesus in the womb of Mary?

 

What was God's purpose in creating the only sinless being that ever existed?

 

What was God's purpose in making Jesus appear to be crucified for 600 years?

 

What was God's purpose in having Jesus Ascend to Heaven?

 

What is the purpose of Allah bringing back Jesus at the end of days?

 

Does Islam see the relation between Allah and Humans as Creator and His creation or Master and His slaves?

 

Who is "We" mentioned in the Surat An-Naĥl (The Bee) 16:97?

 

You now have made statements about the Old Testament, Talmud, and New Testaments. Please clarify the following so there will be no misunderstandings.

 

The OT contains some fragments of the Torah which was lost and the Psalms.

Does your statement include the Silver Scrolls, Great Isaiah Scroll and other Dead Sea Scrolls the date back at least over a thousand years before Mohammed?

 

Are these fragments considered books or scrolls? If not, what do you define as a book?

 

You state:

 

We know, of course, that, according to what the leading scholars of Islam have said, he (p.b.u.h.) had about 4440 miracles.

Where on the Quran does it show Mohammed's 4440 miracles?

 

You state:

 

although the NT may contain fragments of the Injeel (sayings and teachings of Prophet Jesus).

I am sure that we both can agree that since Jesus was without sin. That he was the greatest prophet. So I am quite sure that his words would not have been lost. Can you please share the teachings of Jesus in Quran?

 

You state:

 

The Injeel as revealed through Prophet Jesus has been lost. The fragments which may be cited in the NT may not be authentic or in their proper context. So it is erroneous to equate the NT with the Injeel mentioned in the Quran.

Would the Didache, Codex Sinaiticus, John Rylands Papyrus 52, The Magdalen Papyrus, Chester Beatty Papyrus 46, and the continual compilation of evidence be considered the Injeel?

 

You state:

 

The Quran is the only authentic “Word of God,” His Speech, and Allah has promised to protect it from distortion of any kind until the Day of Judgment and He has kept His promise. Not one letter or syllable has been changed over the past l4 centuries.

It appears that there is an argument about the actual number of verses of the Quran.

 

Can you explain why these Muslim scholars state the number of verses is different? I believe it to be 6667. Why would there be this discrepancy?

 

01. Tafseer Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran, Volume 1 page 84 :

 

Allamah Jalaluddin Suyuti has recorded a tradition from Ibn Abbas [ra] wherein he says: “The number of verses in the Quran are 6616”

 

02.Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran, Volume 1 page 84 :

 

Allamah Jalaluddin Suyuti whilst citing Sunni scholarly opinion from Sunni scholar Uthman bin Saeed bin Uthman Abu Amro al-Daani (d. 444 H) wrote:

 

Al-Daani said: ‘They agreed that the number of verses of Quran are six thousand but they disagreed in what has been added further (to the Quran), some of them didn't add more whilst others said it was two hundred and four. Some said two hundred and fourteen, others said two hundred and nineteen. Some said two hundred and twenty five, others said two hundred and thirty six.’

 

03.Tafseer Ibn Kathir, Volume 1 page 7, number of verses&Tafseer Qurtubi, Volume 1 page 65, number of verses :

 

“The total number of verses Quranic verses are 6000. Disagreement remains about the remainder verses. There are various views and statements about them. One statement is that there are 6204 verses”

I would not even have mentioned the above but state my Bible not holy. I think you will find the mix of languages have effect on any written text. Some words are not understood and mistranslated as Ahmed Deedat so often mentioned.

 

http://youtu.be/HKzXzCCVC1I

 

At this point my belief is that Muslims like Jews are good people with many things in common with Christians. I have found less division than originally thought. God has blessed me to be the guardian of a disabled Muslim man when his family abandoned him. Taking care of him has been a blessing and I now consider him a brother. This is one reason why I am interested in finding common ground in our faiths. But, in respect I have not read any new wisdom that is not been taught in my Holy Bible. Jesus was all about God's love for us. He was the Reedemer. I see nothing of his message in the Quran. The wisdom in his words are very clear to me and cannot be argued.

 

[Luke_Wilbur]

God = Father = Word = Truth

We are not so different. It is just we look at God through different facets.

Surat An-Naĥl (The Bee)

16:102 Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."

John 4

4:19 The woman said to him, Sir, I see that you are a prophet.

4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you people say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem.

4:21 Jesus said to her, Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

4:22 You people worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews.

4:23 But a time is coming and now is here when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers.

4:24 God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

4:25 The woman said to him, I know that Messiah is coming (the one called Christ); whenever he comes, he will tell us everything.

4:26 Jesus said to her, I, the one speaking to you, am he.

John 17

17:6 I have revealed your name to the men you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me, and they have obeyed your word.

17:7 Now they understand that everything you have given me comes from you,

17:8 because I have given them the words you have given me. They accepted them and really understand that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

17:9 I am praying on behalf of them. I am not praying on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those you have given me, because they belong to you.

17:10 Everything I have belongs to you, and everything you have belongs to me, and I have been glorified by them.

17:11 I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them safe in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one.

17:12 When I was with them I kept them safe and watched over them in your name that you have given me. Not one of them was lost except the one destined for destruction, so that the scripture could be fulfilled.

17:13 But now I am coming to you, and I am saying these things in the world, so they may experience my joy completed in themselves.

17:14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them, because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world.

17:15 I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but that you keep them safe from the evil one.

17:16 They do not belong to the world just as I do not belong to the world.

17:17 Set them apart in the truth; your word is truth.

17:18 Just as you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.

17:19 And I set myself apart on their behalf, so that they too may be truly set apart.

1 Peter 1

1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who predicted the grace that would come to you searched and investigated carefully.

1:11 They probed into what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating when he testified beforehand about the sufferings appointed for Christ and his subsequent glory.

1:12 They were shown that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things now announced to you through those who proclaimed the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven things angels long to catch a glimpse of.

1 John 4

4:4 You are from God, little children, and have conquered them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

4:5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the worlds perspective and the world listens to them.

4:6 We are from God; the person who knows God listens to us, but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.

1 Thessalonians 4

4:1 Finally then, brothers and sisters, we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received instruction from us about how you must live and please God (as you are in fact living) that you do so more and more.

4:2 For you know what commands we gave you through the Lord Jesus.

4:3 For this is Gods will: that you become holy, that you keep away from sexual immorality,

4:4 that each of you know how to possess his own body in holiness and honor,

4:5 not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God.

4:6 In this matter no one should violate the rights of his brother or take advantage of him, because the Lord is the avenger in all these cases, as we also told you earlier and warned you solemnly.

4:7 For God did not call us to impurity but in holiness.

4:8 Consequently the one who rejects this is not rejecting human authority but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

Ephesians 1

1:13 And when you heard the word of truth (the gospel of your salvation) when you believed in Christ you were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit,

1:14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of Gods own possession, to the praise of his glory.

I hope with the Power of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Jesus Christ and the Mercy of Father that this sinner too one day can be called a Son of God. Pure selfless love is hard to attain. For the Father to have Mercy on me I must have Mercy on others and not strive for division. I am nothing special. Grace is an invitation to everyone that wants to receive it, but not everyone chooses accept it.

For those without faith it is conscious decision to fully understand and accept what is right and what is wrong. It is the mission of those with faith to set and teach the truth of moral boundaries that we have learned. Without discovering moral liberty one cannot truly realize wisdom and folly.

Surat Saba' (Sheba)

34:6 And those who have been given knowledge see that what is revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, and it guides to the path of the Exalted in Might, the Praiseworthy.

34:7 But those who disbelieve say, "Shall we direct you to a man who will inform you [that] when you have disintegrated in complete disintegration, you will [then] be [recreated] in a new creation?

34:8 Has he invented about Allah a lie or is there in him madness?" Rather, they who do not believe in the Hereafter will be in the punishment and [are in] extreme error.

Ennin,
I pray that you see Jesus the way I do and receive the good news. But, if your conscious is good then I hope to meet you someday in the kingdom of God (Allah)

[Luke_Wilbur]

I think all Muslims should view this video on the Didache. I believe a discourse on the balance between Christ the Man and Christ the Divine should be discussed. The Didache was lost during the time of Mohammed. Didache was found in 1873 by Philotheos Bryennios, Archbishop of Nicomedia.

 

 

I believe it to be a bridge between Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

 

I have spent many months tying it to the the Old and New Testament. I hope to then tie it to the Quran.

 

Review what I have done and search for anything that goes against your faith. I pray that you will not find any corruption.

 

The Didache (The Teaching) First Christian Catechism

 

If you find what I have to done to be true and in good faith then I ask for your help in building a true bridge towards peace between our beliefs. Allah does not want division. God loves all His Children.

 

[eninn]

Son of God, son of David, or son of Man? Jesus is identified as “son of David” fourteen times in the New Testament, starting with the very first verse (Matthew 1:1). The Gospel of Luke documents forty-one generations between Jesus and David, while Matthew lists twenty-six. Jesus, a distant descendant, can only wear the “son of David” title metaphorically. But how then should we understand the title, “son of God?”

 

The “Trilemma,” a common proposal of Christian missionaries, states that “Jesus was either a lunatic, a liar, or the Son of God, as he claimed to be.” For the sake of argument, let’s agree that Jesus was neither a lunatic nor a liar. Let’s also agree he was precisely what he claimed to be. But what, exactly, was that? Jesus called himself “Son of Man” frequently, consistently, perhaps even emphatically, but where did he call himself “Son of God?”

 

Let’s back up. What does “Son of God” mean in the first place? No legitimate Christian sect suggests that God took a wife and had a child, and most certainly none conceive that God fathered a child through a human mother outside of marriage. Furthermore, to suggest that God physically mated with an element of His creation is so far beyond the limits of religious tolerance as to plummet down the sheer cliff of blasphemy, chasing the mythology of the Greeks.

 

With no rational explanation available within the tenets of Christian doctrine, the only avenue for closure is to claim yet one more doctrinal mystery. Here is where the Muslim recalls the question posed in the Quran:

 

“…How can He have a son when He has no consort?...” (Quran 6:101)

 

…while others shout, “But God can do anything!” The Islamic position, however, is that God doesn’t do inappropriate things, only Godly things. In the Islamic viewpoint, God’s character is integral with His being and consistent with His majesty.

 

So again, what does “Son of God” mean? And if Jesus Christ has exclusive rights to the term, why does the Bible record, “...for I (God) am a father to Israel, and Ephraim (i.e. Israel) is my firstborn” (Jeremiah 31:9) and, “...Israel is My son, even my firstborn” (Exodus 4:22)? Taken in the context of Romans 8:14, which reads, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God,” many scholars conclude that “Son of God” is metaphorical and, as with christos, doesn’t imply exclusivity. After all, The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish Religion confirms that in Jewish idiom “Son of God” is clearly metaphorical. To quote, “Son of God, term occasionally found in Jewish literature, biblical and post-biblical, but nowhere implying physical descent from the Godhead.”[1] Hasting’s Bible Dictionary comments:

 

In Semitic usage “sonship” is a conception somewhat loosely employed to denote moral rather than physical or metaphysical relationship. Thus “sons of Belial” (Jg 19:22 etc.) are wicked men, not descendants of Belial; and in the NT the “children of the bridechamber” are wedding guests. So a “son of God” is a man, or even a people, who reflect the character of God. There is little evidence that the title was used in Jewish circles of the Messiah, and a sonship which implied more than a moral relationship would be contrary to Jewish monotheism.[2]

 

And in any case, the list of candidates for “son of God” begins with Adam, as per Luke 3:38: “...Adam, which was the son of God.”

 

Those who rebut by quoting Matthew 3:17 (“And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, ‘This is My beloved son, in whom I am well pleased’”) have overlooked the point that the Bible describes many people, Israel and Adam included, as “sons of God.” Both II Samuel 7:13-14 and I Chronicles 22:10 read, “He (Solomon) shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son.”

 

Entire nations are referred to as sons, or children of God. Examples include:

 

Genesis 6:2, “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men…”

 

Genesis 6:4, “There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men…”

 

Deuteronomy 14:1, “Ye are the children of the Lord your God.”

 

Job 1:6, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD…”

 

Job 2:1, “Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD…”

 

Job 38:7, “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

 

Philippians 2:15, “that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation…”

 

1 John 3:1-2, “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! … Beloved, now we are children of God…”

 

In Matthew 5:9 Jesus says, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” Later in Matthew 5:45, Jesus prescribed to his followers the attainment of noble attributes, “that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” Not exclusively his Father, but their Father …

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HBWZ45UJLI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sA0XdnnrYQ

[Luke_Wilbur]

Ennin you wrote:

…while others shout, “But God can do anything!” The Islamic position, however, is that God doesn’t do inappropriate things, only Godly things. In the Islamic viewpoint, God’s character is integral with His being and consistent with His majesty.

Why are you stuck on the idea that God (Allah) has to have a physical union with a woman for the offspring to be considered Children of God? Adonai willed Mary to be pregnant and it was. We are both in agreement. My adopted daughter does not come from my bloodline, but I am still her father. She calls me Daddy every time I see her. I love her with all my heart. I cannot see Adonai, but I know he is my Father. And I love him with all my heart. Maybe the better question is this.

Why is inappropriate for God (Allah) to state this:

Luke

3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus also was baptized. And while he was praying, the heavens opened,

3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, “You are my one dear Son; in you I take great delight.”

I almost feel from your writing that love is beneath Allah (God), but then I read the Quran and understand that not to be true.

Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

2:195 And spend in the way of Allah and do not throw [yourselves] with your [own] hands into destruction [by refraining]. And do good; indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

Surat 'Āli `Imrān (Family of Imran)

3:31 Say, [O Muhammad], "If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

I am very sure you believe that Allah loves, forgives, and is merciful is not a metaphor.

Surat Ţāhā (Ta-Ha)

20:114 So high [above all] is Allah , the Sovereign, the Truth. And, [O Muhammad], do not hasten with [recitation of] the Qur'an before its revelation is completed to you, and say, "My Lord, increase me in knowledge."

Those that do not understand the essence of morality cannot understand the reason to serve a Creator that cannot be seen. Those that believe in just their own selves see "God as King (al-Malik)" and "Son of God" as only metaphors. I am quite sure there are some that read the discourse between us and think we are both suffering from a psychosis disorder.

Read what John says about Children of God

John 1

1:9 The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

1:10 He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him.

1:11 He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him.

1:12 But to all who have received him those who believe in his name he has given the right to become Gods children

1:13 children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husbands decision, but by God.

If you do not believe that God (Allah) is not your father, then He is not your father. I believe God is my Father and hope to follow in the footsteps of His begotten Son. So in essence Jesus is my Brother.

Matthew 12

12:46 While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and brothers came and stood outside, asking to speak to him.

12:47 82 Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside wanting to speak to you.”

12:48 To the one who had said this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother and who are my brothers?”

12:49 And pointing toward his disciples he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!

12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Those that believe in Jesus as their Messiah and follow the Commands of God (Allah) are given gift the authority to become God’s spiritual children.

All Muslims accept Jesus as their Messiah, Prophet, Teacher, Servant of God

All Christians accept Jesus as their Messiah, Prophet, Teacher, Priest, King, Servant of God, and Son of God.

Some Jews accept Jesus as a Teacher, and Servant of God,

John 12

12:44 But Jesus shouted out, “The one who believes in me does not believe in me, but in the one who sent me,

12:45 and the one who sees me sees the one who sent me.

12:46 I have come as a light into the world, so that everyone who believes in me should not remain in darkness.

12:47 If anyone hears my words and does not obey them,I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

12:48 The one who rejects me and does not accept my words has a judge; the word I have spoken will judge him at the last day.

12:49 For I have not spoken from my own authority, but the Father himself who sent me has commanded me what I should say and what I should speak.

12:50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. Thus the things I say, I say just as the Father has told me.”

Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

The Jews say "The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on," and the Christians say, "The Jews have nothing to stand on," although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.

It is interesting to note how the walls of disdain are coming down between Christian and the Jewish people. I believe Mohammed did see there was bitterness between our two faiths. But, time heals old wounds and sometimes creates new ones. Mohammed did not get to see the continual hostility between his faith, Christians, and Jews. There was a time when it was the Muslims were the protectors of the Jews from Christian persecution. But I also know there are many places where Jews, Christians, and Muslims peacefully coexist. I for one believe the the Children of Israel must follow the Commands of the old Covenant and the laws given to them by Moses. Jesus wants Christians to follow Moses laws as well. I am sure that Muslims believe that too.

Jesus is my friend. Listen to this song and take him by the hand. That is a metaphor.

How can we dare limit Allah (God) on what He can or cannot do? Nothing is beneath him. Nothing is above him.

Surat An-Nāzi`āt (Those who drag forth)

79:35 The Day when man will remember that for which he strove,

79:36 And Hellfire will be exposed for [all] those who see -

79:37 So as for he who transgressed

79:38 And preferred the life of the world,

79:39 Then indeed, Hellfire will be [his] refuge.

79:40 But as for he who feared the position of his Lord and prevented the soul from [unlawful] inclination,

79:41 Then indeed, Paradise will be [his] refuge.

This message is shared in the Old Testament and New. We are not that unique. The more I read. The more I find that we are one in the same.

[eninn]

There are several key verses which Christians use to prove the biblical origin of the Trinity. Upon analysis of these verses, one can clearly see that they do not prove the Trinity, but rather the same monotheistic message of God. One of the most frequently cited passages from the Bible is Isaiah 9:6-7, from which Christians conclude that the Messiah must be God incarnate. The passage states:

 

“or a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from then on and forevermore the zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.”

 

That Isaiah 9:6 has been misinterpreted can be seen from the fact that Jesus is never called the “Eternal Father” anywhere else in Bible. Since the Trinitarian doctrine teaches that Christians should “neither confound the Persons nor divide the Substance” (Athanasian Creed), how can the Trinitarians accept that Jesus is the “Eternal Father”? Let us consider additional facts impartially.

 

First, all the Hebrew verb forms in Isaiah 9:6 are in the past tense. For example, the word which the Christian Bibles render as “his name will be called” is the two words ‘vayikra shemo,’ which properly translated, should read “his name was called.” The word “vayikra” is the first word to appear in the book of Leviticus (1:1), and it is translated properly over there – in the past tense. In addition, the King James Version translates the same verbs elsewhere in the past tense in Genesis 4:26 and Isaiah 5:25. Only in Isaiah 9:6-7 are these verbs translated in the future tense!

 

Notice that it says “a child HAS been born to us.” This is an event that has just occurred, not a future event. Isaiah is not making a prophecy, but recounting history. A future event would say a child will be born to us, but this is NOT what the verse says. The Christian translations capitalize the word ‘son’ assuming that this is a messianic prophecy and the names of a divine son.

 

Second, the two letter word “is”, is usually not stated in Hebrew. Rather, “is” is understood. For example, the words “hakelev” (the dog) and “gadol” (big), when joined into a sentence - hakelev gadol - means “the dog IS big,” even though no Hebrew word in that sentence represents the word “is.” A more accurate translation of the name of that child, then, would be “A wonderful counselor is the mighty God, the everlasting father ...”. This name describes God, not the person who carries the name. The name Isaiah itself means “God is salvation,” but no one believes the prophet himself is God in a human body!

 

Third, the phrase “Mighty God” is a poor translation according to some biblical scholars. Although English makes a clear distinction between “God” and “god,” the Hebrew language, which has only capital letters, cannot. The Hebrew word “God” had a much wider range of application than it does in English. Some suggest a better translation for the English reader would be “mighty hero,” or “divine hero.” Both Martin Luther and James Moffatt translated the phrase as “divine hero” in their Bibles.

 

Fourth, according to the New Testament, Jesus was never called any of these names in his lifetime.

 

Fifth, if Isaiah 9:6 is taken to refer to Jesus, then Jesus is the Father! And this is against the Trinitarian doctrine.

 

Sixth, the fact that the New Testament does not quote this passage shows that even the New Testament authors didn’t take this verse to be in reference to Jesus.

 

Seventh, the passage is talking about the wonders performed by the Lord for Hezekiah, king of Judah. Preceding verses in Isaiah 9 talk of a great military triumph by Israel over its enemies. At the time Isaiah is said to have written this passage, God had just delivered King Hezekiah and Jerusalem from a siege laid by the Assyrians under General Sennacherib. The deliverance is said to have been accomplished in spectacular fashion: an angel went into the Assyrian camp and killed 185,000 soldiers while they slept. When Sennacherib awoke to find his army decimated, he and the remaining soldiers fled, where he was assassinated by his own sons (Isaiah 37:36-38). Chapters 36 and 37 of Isaiah recount how Hezekiah stood firm in the face of Sennacherib’s vast army and his blasphemous words against the God.

 

When all seemed lost, Hezekiah continued to trust in the Lord, and for this he was rewarded with a miraculous victory. It is interesting to note that the statement, “the zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this,” found at the end of Isaiah 9:7, is found in only two other places in the Bible: Isaiah 37:32 and 2 Kings 19:31. Both these passages discuss the miraculous deliverance of Hezekiah by God. Therefore, in light of the above, Isaiah is recounting God’s defense of Jerusalem during the Assyrian siege. Furthermore, Soncino’s commentary says the chapter is about the fall of Assyria and the announcement of the birth of Hezekiah, the son of Ahaz.

 

[Luke_Wilbur]

Ennin,

So far you have failed to complete your argument. The list grows longer with questions. There is nothing wrong with stating you do not know the answers. I can freely admit that I can only understand what is revealed to me. And there are many subjects I am ignorant on. I am grateful that this discourse has strengthened my faith in Jesus as the greatest prophet and better understand what is to say that he the Son of God. But, I do not want to create division or misunderstanding, so I ask you again.

 

Who are those that believe that God (Allah) is the third of the Trinity?

 

Does Qur'an refer to those that believe in Trinity consider the three Jesus, Mary, and God or is it Jesus, Holy Spirit, and God?

 

Is Gabriel or God's Holy Spirit the Pure Spirit that is mentioned in the Qur'an?

 

Is Mary a prophet?

 

What was the purpose of Allah creating Jesus in the womb of Mary?

 

Is there any other words Christ the Messiah spoke in Qur'an other than 19:26-33?

 

What was Allah's purpose in creating the only sinless being that ever existed?

 

What was Allah's purpose in making Jesus appear to be crucified to both the Jews and Christians for 600 years?

 

What was Allah's purpose in having Jesus Ascend to Heaven?

 

What is the purpose of Allah bringing back Jesus at the end of days?

 

Does Islam see the relation between Allah and Humans as Creator and His creation or Master and His slaves?

 

Do you believe Allah is your Father?

 

Who is "We" mentioned in the Surat An-Naĥl (The Bee) 16:97? I also noticed the same "We" in Surat Al-'Anbyā' (The Prophets) 21:91

 

21:91 And the one who guarded her chastity, so We blew into her through Our angel, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.

Is the angel Gabriel? Is "We" referring to Allah and the Holy Spirit?

 

In my faith Angels do not have the power to create.

 

What is the sign? Tell me more about the sign.

 

Would the Didache, Codex Sinaiticus, John Rylands Papyrus 52, The Magdalen Papyrus, Chester Beatty Papyrus 46, and the continual compilation of evidence be considered the Injeel?

 

Can you explain why Allamah Jalaluddin Suyuti, Uthman bin Saeed bin Uthman Abu Amro al-Daani, Tafseer Ibn Kathir state there is a discrepancy in the number of verses in the Quran

 

Do you see "Allah as King (al-Malik)" and "Son of God" as only metaphors?

 

Is there anything beneath or above Allah?

 

Ennin you state:

 

There are several key verses which Christians use to prove the biblical origin of the Trinity. Upon analysis of these verses, one can clearly see that they do not prove the Trinity, but rather the same monotheistic message of God. One of the most frequently cited passages from the Bible is Isaiah 9:6-7, from which Christians conclude that the Messiah must be God incarnate.

Do you now recognize the written Qumran Isaiah Scroll preserved in its entirety 750 years before Mohammed to be the word of Allah? If not, why?

 

Is that a book to you? Or just a scroll?

 

 

9:6 That the government may be increased, and of peace there be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it through justice and through righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of HaShem of hosts doth perform this.

 

9:7 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.

 

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#9:7

I am sure that you are not the type that would scan questions from others and do not take the time to review what is written or said to you. I do my best to pray for the answers. One just came.

 

http://www.aleppocodex.org/

 

Here is a brief background of the Masoretic People who preserved the Hebrew Bible (Allepo Codex).

 

The goal of the Masoretes was to guard and preserve the text of the Bible, which had been handed down from generation to generation. To achieve this goal, the Masoretes worked in several parallel directions, and in the end they were highly successful. The Masoretes worked to determine the text of the Bible. They stated the proper way of writing and reading the Bible, and in passages where they found differences between texts and ways of reading, they issued a decision and ruled as to which opinion was correct. These decisions related not only to verses and words, but to every single letter.

The Aleppo Codex was written in 1000 AD. Are you aware of this? Do you know the difference between the Allepo Codex and the Dead Sea Scrolls?

 

http://www.aleppocodex.org/newsite/index.html

 

At the time of Christianity's birth Moses Law and the Prophets existed with Greek Hellenistic Jews in a textual form substantially identical with the Old Testament. At this point there is little evidence Moses Law and the Prophets were written in Palestine or in the Jewish diaspora. Much was lost when the temple was burned. The Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate and the Masoretic text have long been discussed by scholars.

 

After the return of the first dispora the Jewsish hope of eschatological liberation began to seed. This can be understood by Muslims in the eschatology of the Prophet Muhammad, regarding the Signs of the Day of Judgment. The spiritual successors of the exilic prophet announced a messianic prince and Savior of Israel would come.

 

I have faith you will find the answers to my above questions. Maybe your local imam can help you support your arguments.

 

Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

 

2:62 Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

Each day I get more and more convinced that God accepts Jews, Christians, and Muslims based on their individual conception of righteousness and reverence to Adonai/Allah.

[Luke_Wilbur]

The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit share everything.

 

Mark 14

 

14:55 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find anything.

 

14:56 Many gave false testimony against him, but their testimony did not agree.

 

14:57 Some stood up and gave this false testimony against him:

 

14:58 “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands and in three days build another not made with hands.’”

 

14:59 Yet even on this point their testimony did not agree.

 

14:60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer? What is this that they are testifying against you?”

 

14:61 But he was silent and did not answer. Again the high priest questioned him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”

 

14:62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

 

14:63 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses?

 

14:64 You have heard the blasphemy! What is your verdict?” They all condemned him as deserving death.

 

14:65 Then 88 some began to spit on him, and to blindfold him, and to strike him with their fists, saying, “Prophesy!” The guards also took him and beat him.

John 15

 

15:18 “If the world hates you, be aware that it hated me first.

 

15:19 If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own. However, because you do not belong to the world, but I chose you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you.

 

15:20 Remember what I told you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they obeyed my word, they will obey yours too.

 

15:21 But they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me.

 

15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. But they no longer have any excuse for their sin.

 

15:23 The one who hates me hates my Father too.

 

15:24 If I had not performed among them the miraculous deeds that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen the deeds and have hated both me and my Father.

 

15:25 Now this happened to fulfill the word that is written in their law, ‘They hated me without reason.’

 

15:26 When the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father – the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father – he will testify about me,

 

15:27 and you also will testify, because you have been with me from the beginning.

 

16:1 “I have told you all these things so that you will not fall away.

 

16:2 They will put you out of the synagogue, yet a time is coming when the one who kills you will think he is offering service to God.

 

16:3 They will do these things because they have not known the Father or me.

 

16:4 But I have told you these things so that when their time comes, you will remember that I told you about them.

 

“I did not tell you these things from the beginning because I was with you.

 

16:5 But now I am going to the one who sent me, and not one of you is asking me, ‘Where are you going?’

 

16:6 Instead your hearts are filled with sadness because I have said these things to you.

 

16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I am going away. For if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you.

 

16:8 And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong concerning sin and righteousness and judgment –

 

16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

 

16:10 concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer;

 

16:11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

 

16:12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

 

16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. For he will not speak on his own authority, but will speak whatever he hears, and will tell you what is to come.

 

16:14 He will glorify me, because he will receive from me what is mine and will tell it to you.

 

16:15 Everything that the Father has is mine; that is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what is mine and will tell it to you.

 

16:16 In a little while you will see me no longer; again after a little while, you will see me."

Surat 'Āli `Imrān (Family of Imran)

 

3:55 when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.

 

3:56 And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."

Surat Maryam (Mary)

 

19:30 Jesus said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.

 

19:31 And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive

 

19:32 And made me dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.

 

19:33 And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

From reading these passages both Muslims and Christians both believe that Jesus was conceived by spiritual union with a holy virgin. During his life on earth Jesus was a holy man who taught, prayed, and followed the will of God (Allah). Jesus died and was raised alive by God's will. Those that follow Jesus are superior to those that disbelieve in Him.

 

Matthew 22

 

22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:

 

22:2 “The kingdom of heaven can be compared to a king who gave a wedding banquet for his son.

 

22:3 He sent his slaves to summon those who had been invited to the banquet, but they would not come.

 

22:4 Again he sent other slaves, saying, ‘Tell those who have been invited, “Look! The feast I have prepared for you is ready. My oxen and fattened cattle have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.”’

 

22:5 But they were indifferent and went away, one to his farm, another to his business.

 

22:6 The rest seized his slaves, insolently mistreated them, and killed them.

 

22:7 The king was furious! He sent his soldiers, and they put those murderers to death and set their city on fire.

 

22:8 Then he said to his slaves, ‘The wedding is ready, but the ones who had been invited were not worthy.

 

22:9 So go into the main streets and invite everyone you find to the wedding banquet.’

 

22:10 And those slaves went out into the streets and gathered all they found, both bad and good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

 

22:11 But when the king came in to see the wedding guests, he saw a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.

 

22:12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ But he had nothing to say.

 

22:13 Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Tie him up hand and foot and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!’

 

22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Revelation 19

 

“Hallelujah!

 

For the Lord our God, the All-Powerful, reigns!

 

19:7 Let us rejoice and exult

 

and give him glory,

 

because the wedding celebration of the Lamb has come,

 

and his bride has made herself ready.

 

19:8 She was permitted to be dressed in bright, clean, fine linen” (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints).

 

19:9 Then the angel said to me, “Write the following: Blessed are those who are invited to the banquet at the wedding celebration of the Lamb!” He also said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

 

19:10 So 18 I threw myself down at his feet to worship him, but he said, “Do not do this! I am only a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony about Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony about Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

 

19:11 I saw heaven opened and here came a white horse! The one riding it was called "Faithful" and "True," and with justice he judges and goes to war.

 

19:12 His eyes are like a fiery flame and there are many diadem crowns on his head. He has a name written that no one knows except himself.

 

19:13 He is dressed in clothing dipped in blood, and he is called the Word of God.

 

19:14 The armies that are in heaven, dressed in white, clean, fine linen, were following him on white horses.

 

19:15 From his mouth extends a sharp sword, so that with it he can strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod, and he stomps the winepress of the furious wrath of God, the All-Powerful.

 

19:16 He has a name written on his clothing and on his thigh: King of kings and Lord of lords."

 

Surat 'Āli `Imrān (Family of Imran)

 

3:130 O you who have believed, do not consume usury, doubled and multiplied, but fear Allah that you may be successful.

 

3:131 And fear the Fire, which has been prepared for the disbelievers.

 

3:132 And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy.

 

3:133 And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and a garden as wide as the heavens and earth, prepared for the righteous

 

3:134 Who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people - and Allah loves the doers of good;

 

3:135 And those who, when they commit an immorality or wrong themselves [by transgression], remember Allah and seek forgiveness for their sins - and who can forgive sins except Allah ? - and [who] do not persist in what they have done while they know.

 

3:136 Those - their reward is forgiveness from their Lord and gardens beneath which rivers flow [in Paradise], wherein they will abide eternally; and excellent is the reward of the [righteous] workers.

[eninn]

Of all the Christian mysteries, none rank as highly as the concept of Christ’s crucifixion and atoning sacrifice. In fact, Christians base their salvation on this one tenet of faith. And if it really happened, shouldn’t we all?

 

If it really happened, that is.

 

Now, I don’t know about you, but the concept of Jesus Christ having atoned for the sins of mankind sounds pretty good to me. And shouldn’t it? I mean, if we can trust that someone else atoned for all of our sins, and we can go to heaven on that concept alone, shouldn’t we instantly close on that deal?

 

If it really happened, that is.

 

So let’s check this out. We’re told Jesus Christ was crucified. But then again, we’re told a lot of things that later prove to be doubtful or even untrue, so it would be reassuring if we could verify the fact.

 

So let’s ask the witnesses. Let’s ask the gospel authors.

 

Umm, one problem. We don’t know who the authors were. This is a less popular Christian mystery (i.e., waaay less popular) – the fact that all four gospels of the New Testament are anonymous.[1] Nobody knows who wrote them. Graham Stanton tells us, “The gospels, unlike most Graeco-Roman writings, are anonymous. The familiar headings which give the name of an author (‘The Gospel according to . . .’) were not part of the original manuscripts, for they were added only early in the second century.”[2]

 

Added in the second century? By whom? Believe it or not, that is anonymous as well.

 

But let’s forget all that. After all, the four gospels are part of the Bible, so we must respect them as scripture, right?

 

Right?

 

Well, maybe not. After all, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible states, “It is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the NT in which the MS [manuscript] tradition is wholly uniform.”[3] Add to that Bart D. Ehrman’s now famous words, “Possibly it is easiest to put the matter in comparative terms: there are more differences in our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.”[4]

 

Whoa. Hard to imagine. On one hand, we have Matthew, Mark, Luke and John telling us . . . oh, excuse me. I meant to say, we have Anonymous, Anonymous, Anonymous and Anonymous telling us . . . well, what? What do they tell us? That they can’t even agree on what Jesus wore, drank, did or said? After all, Matthew 27:28 tells us the Roman soldiers dressed Jesus with a scarlet robe. John 19:2 says it was purple. Matthew 27:34 says the Romans gave Jesus sour wine mingled with gall. Mark 15:23 says it was mixed with myrrh. Mark 15:25 tells us Jesus was crucified before the third hour, but John 19:14–15 says it was “about the sixth hour.” Luke 23:46 says Jesus’ last words were “Father, into Your hands I commit my spirit,” but John 19:30: says they were “It is finished!”

 

Now, wait a minute. Jesus’ righteous followers would have hung on his every word. On the other hand, Mark 14:50 tells us that all the disciples deserted Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. But okay, some people – not disciples, I guess, but some people (anonymous, of course) – hung on his every word, hoping for some parting words of wisdom, and they heard . . . different things?

 

Believe it or not, after this point, the gospel records become even more inconsistent.

 

Following the alleged resurrection, we hardly find a single issue the four gospels (Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20) agree upon. For example:

 

Who went to the tomb?

 

Matthew: “Mary Magdalene and the other Mary”

 

Mark: “Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome”

 

Luke: “The women who had come with him from Galilee” and “certain other women”

 

John: “Mary Magdalene”

 

Why did they go to the tomb?

 

Matthew: “To see the tomb”

 

Mark: They “brought spices, that they might come and anoint him”

 

Luke: They “brought spices”

 

John: no reason given

 

Was there an earthquake (something nobody in the vicinity would be likely to either miss or forget)?

 

Matthew: Yes

 

Mark: no mention

 

Luke: no mention

 

John: no mention

 

Did an angel descend? (I mean, come on, guys – an angel? Are we to believe that three of you somehow missed this part?)

 

Matthew: Yes

 

Mark: no mention

 

Luke: no mention

 

John: no mention

 

Who rolled back the stone?

 

Matthew: The angel (the one the other three anonymouses – now, let’s see, would that be “anonymouses” or “anonymice”? – didn’t see)

 

Mark: unknown

 

Luke: unknown

 

John: unknown

 

Who was at the tomb?

 

Matthew: “an angel”

 

Mark: “a young man”

 

Luke: “two men”

 

John: “two angels”

 

Where were they?

 

Matthew: The angel was sitting on the stone, outside the tomb.

 

Mark: The young man was in the tomb, “sitting on the right side.”

 

Luke: The two men were inside the tomb, standing beside them.

 

John: The two angels were “sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.”

 

By whom and where was Jesus first seen?

 

Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the “other Mary,” on the road to tell the disciples.

 

Mark: Mary Magdalene only, no mention where.

 

Luke: Two of the disciples, en route to “a village called Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem.”

 

John: Mary Magdalene, outside the tomb.

 

So where does this leave us, if not wondering whose idea of scripture this is?

[Luke_Wilbur]

Ennin,

Once again you cannot answer my questions. Your only rebuttal is an attempt to ask me more questions. The polite thing to do is answer questions, then give questions.

 

Our discourse on Jesus has been replayed for two thousand years. Read Mark 14:55 and you may understand.

 

Mark 14

 

14:55 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find anything.

I am going to consider that you have looked to your Holy Book and my Holy Book, spoke with those that have wisdom and cannot still cannot find answers, but you have questions and hope I have the wisdom to shed a little more light on the subject.

 

At this point I have have found that Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are far more similar to than one might assume.

 

Ennin you wrote:

 

Of all the Christian mysteries, none rank as highly as the concept of Christ’s crucifixion and atoning sacrifice. In fact, Christians base their salvation on this one tenet of faith. And if it really happened, shouldn’t we all?

I will use your Holy Book and my Holy Book to find answers to your questions.

 

Surat Maryam (Mary)

 

19:33 And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

Here the Quran states Jesus was born, died, and raised alive.

 

Surat An-Nisā' (The Women)

 

4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

The only correlation to 4:157 is Gnostic, Second Treatise of the Great Seth, where Simon of Cyrene took on Jesus’ form and died in his place, while Jesus stood laughing. This book was written about 100 years before Mohammed in Egypt.

 

For Adonaios knows me because of hope. And I was in the mouths of lions. And the plan which they devised about me to release their Error and their senselessness - I did not succumb to them as they had planned. But I was not afflicted at all. Those who were there punished me. And I did not die in reality but in appearance, lest I be put to shame by them because these are my kinsfolk. I removed the shame from me and I did not become fainthearted in the face of what happened to me at their hands. I was about to succumb to fear, and I <suffered> according to their sight and thought, in order that they may never find any word to speak about them. For my death, which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. For their Ennoias did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. I was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the archons and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance.

The Gnostics believe in God, Jesus, and Sophia (Wisdom). Gnosticism and Coptic Christianity are foreign to me. It appears that Mohammed's dialogue in the Qur'an was not with Roman and Orthodox Christians at all.

 

The perfect Savior said: "I want you to know that he who appeared before the universe in infinity, Self-grown, Self-constructed Father, being full of shining light and ineffable, in the beginning, when he decided to have his likeness become a great power, immediately the principle (or beginning) of that Light appeared as Immortal Androgynous Man, that through that Immortal Androgynous Man they might attain their salvation and awake from forgetfulness through the interpreter who was sent, who is with you until the end of the poverty of the robbers.

 

"And his consort is the Great Sophia, who from the first was destined in him for union by Self-begotten Father, from Immortal Man, who appeared as First and divinity and kingdom, for the Father, who is called 'Man, Self-Father', revealed this. And he created a great aeon, whose name is 'Ogdoad', for his own majesty.

http://youtu.be/fbE-rMREfYM

 

From the above I must now consider the Jewish, Christian, Gnostic, and Islamic faiths to find the wisdom to answer your questions.

 

We first need to try to understand how Jesus first died. Jews and Christians mostly agree that Jesus was crucified. But, Muslims believe someone who pretended to be Jesus was crucified, but do not know how he died. But, he somehow did. The Gnostics believe that it was Simon of Cyrene who impersonated Jesus.

 

This brings us to the next question on the method that Jesus was raised alive.

 

Jews do not believe anything happened. They just believe he was put to death and his body rotted. Gnostics believe that Christ never died at all. It is only Christians and Muslims that believe that Christ died and was raised alive.

 

Now Christians believe that Jesus suffered death and was raised alive into Heaven. From what I read from the Qur'an Muslims believe the same too. Thus it is the method of how death and how Jesus was raised alive that transpired..

 

The Qur'an is not clear on the methods of Jesus death, resurrection, and ascension to Heaven.

 

I am not sure whether Muslims believe Jesus with struck with a piece of a dead yellow cow and brought back to life. I hope Mohammed was preaching that no man could ever find the perfect cow to raise a person from the dead.

 

Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

 

2:67 And [recall] when Moses said to his people, "Indeed, Allah commands you to slaughter a cow." They said, "Do you take us in ridicule?" He said, "I seek refuge in Allah from being among the ignorant."

 

2:68 They said, "Call upon your Lord to make clear to us what it is." [Moses] said, "[ Allah ] says, 'It is a cow which is neither old nor virgin, but median between that,' so do what you are commanded."

 

2:69 They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us what is her color." He said, "He says, 'It is a yellow cow, bright in color - pleasing to the observers.' "

 

2:70 They said, "Call upon your Lord to make clear to us what it is. Indeed, [all] cows look alike to us. And indeed we, if Allah wills, will be guided."

 

2:71 He said, "He says, 'It is a cow neither trained to plow the earth nor to irrigate the field, one free from fault with no spot upon her.' " They said, "Now you have come with the truth." So they slaughtered her, but they could hardly do it.

 

2:72 And [recall] when you slew a man and disputed over it, but Allah was to bring out that which you were concealing.

 

2:72 So, We said, "Strike the slain man with part of it." Thus does Allah bring the dead to life, and He shows you His signs that you might reason.

Ennin you wrote:

 

Who went to the tomb?

 

Matthew: “Mary Magdalene and the other Mary”

 

Mark: “Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome”

 

Luke: “The women who had come with him from Galilee” and “certain other women”

 

John: “Mary Magdalene”

 

Why did they go to the tomb?

 

Matthew: “To see the tomb”

 

Mark: They “brought spices, that they might come and anoint him”

 

Luke: They “brought spices”

 

John: no reason given

Just wanted to correct you one statement on Luke.

 

Luke 24

 

24:10 Now it was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them who told these things to the apostles.

I understand that you are not adept in the Gospels, just as I am just learning the Qur'an. Here is my personal response to what I quoted you from above.

 

All four gospels state that Jesus was placed in a tomb. All four gospels state that women were the first people to visit the tomb near dawn. Two of the gospels say it was the first day of the week. Two of the gospels say it was after the Sabbath. According to Jewish beliefs the Sabbath is on a Saturday. Sunday is the first day of the week. So there is no contention there. All four gospels include Mary Magdalene. Luke and Mark state that aromatic spices were brought to the tomb. The other two Gospels does not describe whether or not spices were brought with them. Each Gospel is written by a different disciple to different groups of people for different reasons. So I find no contention here at all on whether or not they wrote about the use of anointing spices. All four gospels find the stone rolled open. All four gospels find the tomb empty without Jesus. Three of the gospels have women running away from the tomb. The Gospel of Luke does not describe whether the women were running or walking. Three of the gospels have women frightened at what they saw. The John does not describe whether the women were frightened or not. All four gospels have at least one women telling the Apostles about the empty tomb.

 

[Luke_Wilbur]

Mohammed could not have stated it better.

 

He gives wisdom to whom He wills, and whoever has been given wisdom has certainly been given much good. And none will remember except those of understanding.

John 20

 

20:24 Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.

 

20:25 The other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he replied, “Unless I see the wounds from the nails in his hands, and put my finger into the wounds from the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will never believe it!”

 

20:26 Eight days later the disciples were again together in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

 

20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and examine my hands. Extend your hand and put it into my side. Do not continue in your unbelief, but believe.”

 

20:28 Thomas replied to him, “My Lord and my God!”

 

20:29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are the people who have not seen and yet have believed.”

I think it is difficult for those that do not have faith to believe in Jesus as the Son of Allah (Yahweh). They long to see him materialize in front of their eyes and touch Him.

 

Ennin you wrote:

 

From the above I take the way to bring the a dead man to life is find and slaughter am all yellow non working cow and strike him with a piece of it.

 

Matthew: The angel was sitting on the stone, outside the tomb.

 

Mark: The young man was in the tomb, “sitting on the right side.”

 

Luke: The two men were inside the tomb, standing beside them.

 

John: The two angels were “sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.”

All four gospels mention an apparition was seen in the tomb. All four gospels mention the attire of the apparition. All three gospels mention that Christ had risen from the dead. Matthew, Mark, and John describe the attire of the apparition to be white. Matthew and Luke describe the appearance to be brilliant (lightning, dazzled). Mark and John do not mention whether or not the appearance of the apparition to be brilliant. But, in Jewish tradition, the color white represents purity and humility. Since the apparition was not known to the witnesses, but knew of Christ rising from the dead, the apparition must be a holy messenger. Matthew, Mark, and John state this apparition to be angels. Luke does not state whether or not the apparition was and angel or not. But Luke's mention of women bowing to an unknown holy apparition in dazzling attire that states Christ has been raised leaves little doubt the two messengers were Angels of God. Matthew and Mark focus on the Angel that spoke.

 

Ennin,

Just like you and I write in different voices. Why do you expect different authors to write in the same voices?

 

Did Mohammed have the same voice as Moses? No

 

Did Mohammed have the same voice as Jesus? No

 

You will lose the wisdom and beauty of God's message if you get stuck in the details.