Veda says that God is known and seen

[dattaswami2]

Veda says that God is known and seen

 

Vedaahamaikshadityavirodha Oupadhikam hi .

 

(Veda says that God is known and seen. This does not contradict the above said unimaginable nature of God. These statements only refer to the medium in to which God entered.)

 

Veda says that God is not seen by eyes. But the same Veda says else where that a fortunate devotee sees God (Kaschit Dhirah..). Similarly, Veda says that God alone knows God. But the same Veda says that a devotee knows God (Vedaahametam….). This seems to be a contradiction in Veda. But there is no contradiction, because God enters a medium for the sake of devotees. Then the medium is charged by God and the verbs like known, seen etc., apply to the charged medium and not to the original God.

 

A simile to the mediated God

 

Vidyullateva .

 

(An electric wire is seen but not the electricity. This is a simile to the mediated God. )

When the electricity charges the metallic wire, the wire is treated as the electricity. The electric wire is seen but you can say that the electricity is seen. The electricity is seen through the wire indirectly though not directly. The electricity pervades all over the wire and when the wire is touched anywhere, the electricity is experienced through the touch of the wire. Therefore, the verbs like seen, touched etc., apply to the wire and not to the electricity. But, indirectly the electricity is experienced through the shock. Similarly God is experienced through the medium, since the medium can be treated as God like the live wire.

[prashantkochar1]

Datta Swami ji

Pranam

 

Please tell something about you and what is the purpose for making this thread?

 

This post is not very clear to me. You are saying in your example that we can see the electric wire but not the electricity. In the same way, we can see the medium but not the God. Then how can we say that God can be seen.

 

-Prashanti

[Guest Nobody]

In solid conductive metal, a large population of electrons are mobile or free electrons. These electrons are bound to the metal lattice but not to any individual atom. Even without an external electric field applied, these electrons move about randomly due to thermal energy but on average, there is zero net current within the metal. Given an imaginary plane through which the wire passes, the number of electrons moving from one side to the other in any period of time is exactly equal to the number passing in the opposite direction.

 

When a metal wire is connected across the two terminals of a DC voltage source such as a battery, the source places an electric field across the conductor. The moment contact is made, the free electrons of the conductor are forced to drift toward the positive terminal under the influence of this field.

 

A moving charge has not just an electric field but also a magnetic field, and in general the electric and magnetic fields are not completely separate phenomena; what one observer perceives as an electric field, another observer in a different frame of reference perceives as a mixture of electric and magnetic fields. For this reason, one speaks of "electromagnetism" or "electromagnetic fields."

 

Quantum electrodynamics (QED) is a relativistic quantum field theory of electrodynamics. QED was developed by a number of physicists, beginning in the late 1920s. QED mathematically describes all phenomena involving electrically charged particles interacting by means of exchange of photons.

 

In theoretical physics and quantum field theory a particle's self-energy represents the contribution to the particle's energy, or effective mass, due to interactions between the particle and the system it is part of. For example, in electrostatics the self-energy of a given charge distribution is the energy required to assemble the distribution by bringing in the constituent charges from infinity, where the electric force goes to zero.

 

Although electric fields require no energy to maintain they do require energy to create, and that the energy of an electrical array resides in the electrical fields it creates between the charged bodies. This is know as the field model of electrical interaction energy.

 

The reason why the plasma membrane of a human is such an effective barrier to the passage of small ions is that the electrostatic self-energy of the ions is so much higher in the membrane than it is in the water. The hydrocarbon tails of lipids that compose the membrane have a low electrical polarizability and hence a low relative dielectric constant.

 

Currently scientist believe that all magnetic fields are created by current-carrying conductors, current loops or equivalently by magnetic dipoles. All magnetic fields created by current-carrying conductor also form closed loops.

 

Ampere's Law

 

The magnetic field in space around an electric current is proportional to the electric current which serves as its source, just as the electric field in space is proportional to the charge which serves as its source. Ampere's Law states that for any closed loop path, the sum of the length elements times the magnetic field in the direction of the length element is equal to the permeability times the electric current enclosed in the loop.

 

In the equations describing electric and magnetic fields and their propagation, three constants are normally used. One is the speed of light c, and the other two are the electric permittivity of free space ε0 and the magnetic permeability of free space, μ0. The magnetic permeability of free space is taken to have the exact value

[dattaswami2]

Datta Swami ji

Pranam

 

Please tell something about you and what is the purpose for making this thread?

 

This post is not very clear to me. You are saying in your example that we can see the electric wire but not the electricity. In the same way, we can see the medium but not the God. Then how can we say that God can be seen.

 

-Prashanti

 

 

Dear Prashanti;

 

Absolute God is unimaginable and incoprehensible and beyond human beings logic. But if He is not giving His presence to us, then all will deny GOd's existence. Such Unimaginable GOd comes down in human form known as 'Human Incarnation' to give HIS presence to us. He comes in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls. By this we can touch Him, talk to Him, see Him and Co-live with Him. It is for our benifit only He is coming in human form, so that we can approach Him without any tension or fear and clear all our doubts. God need a medium to express to us. He selects the most suitable soul known as 'Son of God' to enter. The human incarnation is a two in one system, in which 'Son of God' and 'God', exists simultanously. When you approach a human incaration present in your time now, you have seen the unimaginable God. You can expereince Him thorugh that human body. Still you are not understood the God, you have only expereinced the unimaginablity of God through that medium. Human incanriaton gives infinite true divine knoweldge which an ordinary soul cannot give you. Human incarnaiton is like a live wire. Wire is the medium or body of human incariaotn and current is the invisible God. If you touch the human incarnation you have touched the unimaginable God. When you have seen the human incaraiton you have seen the invisible GOd who pervaded that human incarnation. This is the only way you can experience the unimagianble God no other way. God will never enter inert statue, He enters only to a living being especailly human being to preach and uplift the human souls.

 

God is coming to the earth in human form from the beginning itself. He is preaching the atheists, He also shows miracles, then why this unimaginable state of God? If you know everything about God, after some time the value on God will decrease. Suppose a subject is not understood, you will have some difficulty regarding that subject, but if it is understood then you will have light view on that subject. Therefore God maintains His unimaginable state, so as to save human beings from Ego. For such divine purpose only He is keeping the unimaginable state.

 

God knows about Himself this statement is not with respect to human beings. Who is the knower of God? God alone. No body can know Him. The meaning of these scriptures is; nobody other than God can know Him. When He comes in human form and perform Miracles, nobody can understand those miracles. But the miracle is under His control only. So God exists, but we do not know His existence, that is all.

 

God is unimaginable but God enters a medium also become imaginable. There are two aspects. The medium is imaginable, you can see, touch, talk, embrace, and can kiss the feet of Jesus. All this is imaginable. Now the unimaginable component is homogenously mixed with the imaginable component, like electricity in the wire, so that the medium itself is God. Now God is not unimaginable, He is now imaginable through the medium. Why then this unimaginable component?

 

Suppose that God is only imaginable, and then everything become known and imaginable, it will develop some negligence towards God.

 

You are experiencing God through the imaginable medium but you are not experiencing the God directly. Then you take the unimaginable concept of God. Still God is unimaginable and by this your devotion and attraction to God is made alive and it continues. Some thing is known to you it will develop negligence. If God is completely unknown then also you will neglect God. So God should have both the concepts of known as well as unknown. Because God is known you will have devotion. Since God is known after some time the devotion will fall. Then you take the unimaginable concept. The actual God present in this medium is still unknown. Here you take the unimaginable concept, then attraction become alive and negligence will disappear. To create devotion, God become imaginable and to continue the devotion, by avoiding the negligence He is also unimaginable; He is both imaginable and unimaginable. In an electric wire you treat wire (imaginable) as current (unimaginable) which has pervaded also over the wire. Here current become imaginable. But at the same time electricity is electricity only. You have seen only the wire; the chain of metallic crystals; not the stream of electrons. To create devotion and continue devotion both these concepts are there.

 

If you take Jesus, He has done unimaginable miracle, that any body cannot do, don’t you think that unimaginable components in Him? You are touching Him, talking to Him, all these are imaginable components. The unimaginable component attracts and imaginable component maintains the devotion.

 

 

Live wire is an analogy used for Human incarnation.

[Guest James Frazer]

Dear Prashanti;

 

Absolute God is unimaginable and incoprehensible and beyond human beings logic. But if He is not giving His presence to us, then all will deny GOd's existence. Such Unimaginable GOd comes down in human form known as 'Human Incarnation' to give HIS presence to us. He comes in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls. By this we can touch Him, talk to Him, see Him and Co-live with Him. It is for our benifit only He is coming in human form, so that we can approach Him without any tension or fear and clear all our doubts.

 

The notion of a man-god, or of a human being endowed with divine or supernatural powers, belongs essentially to an earlier period of religious history in which gods and men were viewed as beings of much the same order. And as the gods are commonly believed to exhibit themselves in the likeness of men to their worshippers, it is easy for the magician, with his supposed miraculous powers, to acquire the reputation of being an incarnate deity. Thus beginning as little more than a simple conjurer, the medicine-man or magician tends to blossom out into a full-blown god and king in one. Only in speaking of him as a god we must beware of importing into the savage conception of deity those very abstract and complex ideas which we attach to the term. The savage does not understand the thoughts of the civilised man, and few civilised men understand the thoughts of the savage. The persons in whom a deity is thought to reveal himself are by no means always kings or descendants of kings; the supposed incarnation may take place even in men of the humblest rank. In India, for example, one human god started in life as a cotton-bleacher and another as the son of a carpenter. Thus far we have seen that the savage, failing to discern the limits of his ability to control nature, ascribes to himself and to all men certain powers which we should now call supernatural.

 

At Chinchvad, a small town about ten miles from Poona in Western India, there lives a family of whom one in each generation is believed by a large proportion of the Mahrattas to be an incarnation of the elephant-headed god Gunputty. That celebrated deity was first made flesh about the year 1640 in the person of a Brahman of Poona, by name Mooraba Gosseyn, who sought to work out his salvation by abstinence, mortification, and prayer. His piety had its reward. The god himself appeared to him in a vision of the night and promised that a portion of his, that is, of Gunputty’s holy spirit should abide with him and with his seed after him even to the seventh generation. The divine promise was fulfilled. Seven successive incarnations, transmitted from father to son, manifested the light of Gunputty to a dark world. The last of the direct line, a heavy-looking god with very weak eyes, died in the year 1810. But the cause of truth was too sacred, and the value of the church property too considerable, to allow the Brahmans to contemplate with equanimity the unspeakable loss that would be sustained by a world which knew not Gunputty. Accordingly they sought and found a holy vessel in whom the divine spirit of the master had revealed itself anew, and the revelation has been happily continued in an unbroken succession of vessels from that time to this. But a mysterious law of spiritual economy, whose operation in the history of religion we may deplore though we cannot alter, has decreed that the miracles wrought by the god-man in these degenerate days cannot compare with those which were wrought by his predecessors in days gone by; and it is even reported that the only sign vouchsafed by him to the present generation of vipers is the miracle of feeding the multitude whom he annually entertains to dinner at Chinchvad.

 

A Hindoo sect, which has many representatives in Bombay and Central India, holds that its spiritual chiefs or Maharajas, as they are called, are representatives or even actual incarnations on earth of the god Krishna. And as Krishna looks down from heaven with most favour on such as minister to the wants of his successors and vicars on earth, a peculiar rite called Self-devotion has been instituted, whereby his faithful worshippers make over their bodies, their souls, and, what is perhaps still more important, their worldly substance to his adorable incarnations; and women are taught to believe that the highest bliss for themselves and their families is to be attained by yielding themselves to the embraces of those beings in whom the divine nature mysteriously coexists with the form and even the appetites of true humanity.

 

Sometimes, at the death of the human incarnation, the divine spirit transmigrates into another man. The Buddhist Tartars believe in a great number of living Buddhas, who officiate as Grand Lamas at the head of the most important monasteries. When one of these Grand Lamas dies his disciples do not sorrow, for they know that he will soon reappear, being born in the form of an infant. Their only anxiety is to discover the place of his birth. If at this time they see a rainbow they take it as a sign sent them by the departed Lama to guide them to his cradle. Sometimes the divine infant himself reveals his identity. “I am the Grand Lama,” he says, “the living Buddha of such and such a temple. Take me to my old monastery. I am its immortal head.” In whatever way the birthplace of the Buddha is revealed, whether by the Buddha’s own avowal or by the sign in the sky, tents are struck, and the joyful pilgrims, often headed by the king or one of the most illustrious of the royal family, set forth to find and bring home the infant god. Generally he is born in Tibet, the holy land, and to reach him the caravan has often to traverse the most frightful deserts. When at last they find the child they fall down and worship him. Before, however, he is acknowledged as the Grand Lama whom they seek he must satisfy them of his identity. He is asked the name of the monastery of which he claims to be the head, how far off it is, and how many monks live in it; he must also describe the habits of the deceased Grand Lama and the manner of his death. Then various articles, as prayer-books, tea-pots, and cups, are placed before him, and he has to point out those used by himself in his previous life. If he does so without a mistake his claims are admitted, and he is conducted in triumph to the monastery. At the head of all the Lamas is the Dalai Lama of Lhasa, the Rome of Tibet. He is regarded as a living god, and at death his divine and immortal spirit is born again in a child. According to some accounts the mode of discovering the Dalai Lama is similar to the method, already described, of discovering an ordinary Grand Lama. Other accounts speak of an election by drawing lots from a golden jar. Wherever he is born, the trees and plants put forth green leaves; at his bidding flowers bloom and springs of water rise; and his presence diffuses heavenly blessings.

[dattaswami]

Dear Prashanti;

 

Absolute God is unimaginable and incoprehensible and beyond human beings logic. But if He is not giving His presence to us, then all will deny GOd's existence. Such Unimaginable GOd comes down in human form knowny cannot do, don’t you think that unimaginable components in Him? You are touching Him, talking to Him, all these are imaginable components. The unimaginable component attracts and imaginable component maintains the devotion.

Live wire is an analogy used for Human incarnation.

 

 

The human incarnation comes in every generation

 

The human incarnation comes in every generation but you are not coming in every generation. The rebirth as human being is almost impossible and completely impossible as per Christianity. In such case you are having only one chance to contact the human incarnation present in your generation. If you miss this, never again this luck comes. The next meeting with God is direct where He acts as judge. Therefore, there is no second coming of Jesus for you and you will meet God finally only.

 

In this way the second coming of Jesus at the end can be understood. But if you say that you cannot meet the human incarnation in your present generation, you are not having the opportunity even for once. In such case, why a particular generation in which God came in human form as Jesus was only blessed? They had the extra fortune and this means God is partial to that generation. Therefore, every person in every generation will have the equal chance of coming in contact with the human incarnation once in his or her life and the final contact with God in the energetic form as judge.

 

Therefore, the impartial God comes again and again for every generation (Yada Yada hi…..Gita) but you are not having the chance to meet the human incarnation again since you have no human rebirth. One may get the human rebirth in extreme exceptional situation and you should not depend on that because it involves high risk. The human birth, the urge for salvation and coming in contact with the human incarnation are the three real fortunes and the importance increases from left to right in the order. Therefore, simply having the human birth and having the urge by taking orange robe are not sufficient.

 

Unless you contact the Lord in human form and get the right knowledge for correct implementation, every thing is waste (Manushyatvam Mumukshatvam, Mahapurasha Samsrayah, Durlabham—Sankara). There is no quarrel if you say that the second coming of Jesus is only at the end because every one is having the equal chance. But if you say that I have to worship the past human incarnation only even in the present generation, then the equal opportunity is not given to Me when I am compared to the human being present in that generation in which Jesus came directly and clarified all the doubts face to face. I must have such equal privilege and here the quarrel comes with you since you deny the equal opportunity.

 

The second coming is final with respect to every human being but not with respect to God because in such case several human generations miss the chance of direct contact with God in human form except that one particular human generation. Even if you say that Jesus told that His second coming is only final, it is true with respect to every human being and not with respect to Him. You have misinterpreted this statement by extending it with reference to Jesus also because you want to exploit the people in the name of past Jesus and get personal fame and other facilities from the devotees. You are in no way different from the priests present in that time of Jesus.

 

Both of you do not admit the human form of Lord. Both of you keep the past which is invisible (invisible Jebhova or invisible Jesus) before the devotees and earn money and fame. The only difference between you both is that that priest got Jesus killed through the court and you cannot do that in the present time. The repulsion towards the human form before eyes is common to both the priests and devotees. But in the case priests there is an extra factor that they may lose fame and offerings from the devotees because they get benefited standing at the back ground of the invisible form of God or inert form of God.

 

In the case of devotees, this extra factor does not exist because they are prepared to sacrifice for God and they are not losing since they do not receive. Any Guru or Priest immediately resists human form of God based on these two factors since he fears that the human form may get the fame or their offerings. Thus, there is political, economical and social issue of psychology in this spiritual line. Attraction to fame and money associated with jealously and egoism is the main back ground and Lord Datta brings out the truth that is buried up to any depth. All the details of truth are known to the omniscient God. Veda says that the knowledge of God is always based on truth (Satyam Jnamam).